Changelog 2.192 - Discussion

[Beef]

nerfing leadership is not enough in the current state...the whole fort fighting system requires a hard reset...a full overhaul with new balanced sets released in the timeline of this year. those have to be done by someone in a theoretical way first, with testing after until it achieves a good result
although that is gonna be real hard taking into account all the sets released with so many skill points

could do nerfing leadership as well i guess..should be very easy, in a nutshell. not sure how's that gonna help because high hp deal 0 damage because of the insane amounts of resistance...


maybe nerfing leadership to a decent value and disabling resistance and replacing it with a new added mirror skill (resistance2) would do something - would fix the gringo problem as well
could do that as soon as easter or independence day...release the new set for tanks in both defense and attack and we're gucci

should take into account that the sector damage values are also a problem so could do the exact same thing for that too
but hey who wanna have good fort fights

 

[Richard Maverick]

Carnival quests

Based on your feedback we have changed accessibility dates for Carnival quests.
From now questline "Carnival in the Wild West" will be available every year from March 06th to March 21st. Remember, you can finish questline only once.

@Loki, Will we be able to get the feathers that the quest ask for?

 

[WhyN0t]

disabling resistance and replacing it with a new added mirror skill (resistance2) would do something - would fix the gringo problem as well

Gringo isn't strong because it has high resistance, it's strong because it has 150 sector damage and with its help you can get over 300 sector damage which is insane.

 

[HolmesNick]

Has anyone made an excel or something of this new formula ?

Thank you in advance

 

[WhyN0t]

Diggo is online. First time in how many years?
Maybe he will answer some questions. Like, why does this formula work exactly the opposite of how it was intended (now it's increases the attack at short distance and decreases it at long distance). Or other questions such as when the damage formula will be changed, the UI of the fort improved, when the adventurer will be buffed, when the soldier's duel bonuses will be nerfed etc.

 

[Beef]

Gringo isn't strong because it has high resistance, it's strong because it has 150 sector damage and with its help you can get over 300 sector damage which is insane.

i agree with you, but the resistance is also a problem imo...it boosts the tank resistance a lot compared to the ones that don't have it and that affects fort fights too

 

[WhyN0t]

The thing is that resistance is poorly designed. It's not a percentage value and it doesn't have a specific formula, it's just a flat number. When 150 it was the maximum level, high resistance was OP against tanks, because you gave low to 0 damage per hit. Duelists, even though many of them complained that they dealt lower damage (220 lower if the tank had the spirits set, 260 lower if he also had Gringo weapons), their damage was still very high, it was over 1k per hit, they complained for nothing. Having spirits set means losing 4k hp (8k if you're a soldier) and over 20 defense. You pass out a lot easier. Spirits are only good against tanks. The thing is that now, with the introduction of lvl 250, people deal more damage, so even tanks deal 100-200 against those with increased resistance. So I wouldn't say Gringo resistance is problematic. You have 40 resistance over Cortina +2 (or 45 over Cortina+0) and you lose a lot of hp. Defense is the same. Compared to Bull's weapons you gain a bit more resistance, but you lose even more hp and defense. Of course, you compensate with sector damage, aiming and attack, but if Gringo didn't have that high sector damage, they wouldn't be considered OP. Resistance should be modified. Only one item in the game has resistance per lvl (the golden horse), the rest have a flat number, including Gringo's weapons. Either change the resistance to be per lvl or, better yet, add a formula, to affect duelists more and tanks less.

 

[HolmesNick]

The constant problem with any damage/resistance/distance penalty formula we recreate is that the actual formula that calculates whether you will HIT or NOT is crap.

If the root of the problem is not fixed, no matter how many changes are made to the damage formulas, the only thing they will do is to improve the battles a little (or not at all).. and this until some broken set comes, e.g. union officer, cortina etc.

As big as the luck factor is..it is not possible for a person with a 200 hit bonus to hit with the same hit ratio in 56 rounds as a person with a 150 hit bonus. Same for dodging bonus.

 

[JustAMoment]

Carnival quests

Based on your feedback we have changed accessibility dates for Carnival quests.
From now questline "Carnival in the Wild West" will be available every year from March 06th to March 21st. Remember, you can finish questline only once.

@Loki, Will we be able to get the feathers that the quest ask for?

Yes, youll be able to drop them from jobs as it was before.

 

[Beef]

The thing is that resistance is poorly designed. It's not a percentage value and it doesn't have a specific formula, it's just a flat number. When 150 it was the maximum level, high resistance was OP against tanks, because you gave low to 0 damage per hit. Duelists, even though many of them complained that they dealt lower damage (220 lower if the tank had the spirits set, 260 lower if he also had Gringo weapons), their damage was still very high, it was over 1k per hit, they complained for nothing. Having spirits set means losing 4k hp (8k if you're a soldier) and over 20 defense. You pass out a lot easier. Spirits are only good against tanks. The thing is that now, with the introduction of lvl 250, people deal more damage, so even tanks deal 100-200 against those with increased resistance. So I wouldn't say Gringo resistance is problematic. You have 40 resistance over Cortina +2 (or 45 over Cortina+0) and you lose a lot of hp. Defense is the same. Compared to Bull's weapons you gain a bit more resistance, but you lose even more hp and defense. Of course, you compensate with sector damage, aiming and attack, but if Gringo didn't have that high sector damage, they wouldn't be considered OP. Resistance should be modified. Only one item in the game has resistance per lvl (the golden horse), the rest have a flat number, including Gringo's weapons. Either change the resistance to be per lvl or, better yet, add a formula, to affect duelists more and tanks less.

you lose a tad bit of hp for a tank - not a lot, and gain minimum +50% for almost every stat that the weapon set offers. that is op, even without sector damage. you still have players to boost you in the sector all the time unless you're holding towers or other sectors by yourself..

justifying like "oh it's just 45 extra resistance" is not normal...that's how much a weapon set usually offers. it's like you wear another extra weapon set

high level of resistance is what made tanks useless when shooting in the first place

but yes i admit it's less of a problem compared to the insane amounts of sector damage that union and gringo offer right now, that's why i specified in my post that sector damage is also a problem - hence the removal of the 2, replacing em with a mirror value with the release of new damager and tank sets. that would help reverting them to a more decent value that was around 2018. it would basically nerf the most 2 powerful sets in the game, bring some sort of balance between players reducing the discrepancy of p2w items and also make changes to the scene much easier when releasing future sets

 

[HolmesNick]

but yes i admit it's less of a problem compared to the insane amounts of sector damage that union and gringo offer right now, that's why i specified in my post that sector damage is also a problem - hence the removal of the 2, replacing em with a mirror value with the release of new damager and tank sets. that would help reverting them to a more decent value that was around 2018. it would basically nerf the most 2 powerful sets in the game, bring some sort of balance between players reducing the discrepancy of p2w items and also make changes to the scene much easier when releasing future sets

They are not going to change any set and specially the nugget ones. We know this pretty well. The only thing they can do is actually to set the "bonus damage sector" to "self extra damage" for every set.
This change will of course affect the fortbattles a lot, but it would be very interesting to see the result of such a change.

Although I'm sure they won't even make such a change to such items. They'd rather release a resistance set to cover that huge difference in damage. But that would only make things worse.. (common things for our LCM)

 

[WhyN0t]

@Beef
I agree, but the difference in skills is not really 50%...and the HP is the most important because it doesn't have diminishing returns like all other skills (if we ignore the crits from duellers). Gringo weapons are still the best in slot no doubt, but it's not that bad now as it was when it was released.

https://imgur.com/a/VUZIRzn

I like the fact that you can deal some damage with these weapons. High aiming and attack, high riffle damage. Personally I would play on attack with siringo clothes, golden horse setand gringo weapons, and on defense with cortina clothes, golden horse set and gringo weapons. I don't think it's worth wearing Murrieta's clothes, I would lose too much hp, resistance and defense. Most who have gringo play quite selfishly, without other sector bonus items.

 

[Beef]

They are not going to change any set and specially the nugget ones. We know this pretty well. The only thing they can do is actually to set the "bonus damage sector" to "self extra damage" for every set.
This change will of course affect the fortbattles a lot, but it would be very interesting to see the result of such a change.

Although I'm sure they won't even make such a change to such items. They'd rather release a resistance set to cover that huge difference in damage. But that would only make things worse.. (common things for our LCM)

that was my point...you don't nerf the weapons per se you just make the skills useless for their purpose

 

[WhyN0t]

You're both right, but they can't add sector damage for tank items because everyone will play support with sector damage sets and the damage is already very high. And they can't nerf gringo and I understand. It's not that great for duel, adventures are dead (and hp lower you aiming/dodging chances, so it's not that great either, chef's knives +3 are the same or slightly better than Gringo at adventures). The fort is the only place where gringo weapons shine.

 

[Guiri]

Resistance is just hidden HP, what really matters is hits taken/dodges. You should wear whatever gear maximizes these two.

For example my defence gear:
Summer Spirit - 22.3k hp, 490 res, 180 defence
Cortina - 27k hp, 265 res, 200 defence

Sure I lose 4.7k with Summer Spirit, but I also gain about 225 extra resistance. If I take 20 shots that would be 4.5k HP which equals what I lost. If I take 30 shots 6.8k HP, 40 shots 9k HP etc. So if I take more than 20 shots Summer Spirit makes sense. With Cortina I have a bit higher dodge chance so you could argue that if you just dodge one extra crit Cortina is better.

 

[HolmesNick]

Resistance is just hidden HP, what really matters is hits taken/dodges. You should wear whatever gear maximizes these two.

For example my defence gear:
Summer Spirit - 22.3k hp, 490 res, 180 defence
Cortina - 27k hp, 265 res, 200 defence

Sure I lose 4.7k with Summer Spirit, but I also gain about 225 extra resistance. If I take 20 shots that would be 4.5k HP which equals what I lost. If I take 30 shots 6.8k HP, 40 shots 9k HP etc. So if I take more than 20 shots Summer Spirit makes sense. With Cortina I have a bit higher dodge chance so you could argue that if you just dodge one extra crit Cortina is better.

Summer Spirit does 0 job against the damagers. Hp will always win any debate (for the current formula).

 

[Guiri]

Summer Spirit does 0 job against the damagers. Hp will always win any debate (for the current formula).

I take it you didnt understand a single thing of what I explained. Resistance=HP no matter who is shooting you. If they hit you for 1000 instead of 1200 you are saving 200 hp per shot. If you take 20 shots you have saved 4k hp.

If you don't believe me then I suggest you go in Santa to the next battle and see how well you perform as it gives more hp than Cortina.

 

[Uchiha Madara]

Summer Spirit does 0 job against the damagers. Hp will always win any debate (for the current formula).

That's not true , even if the resistance is not much you are still able to save a lot of HP + the duelers will not crit as much because of the low hp + resistance.

A soldier with 40k hp will die sooner than a soldier with 30k hp + spirits.

 

[HolmesNick]

A soldier with 40k hp will die sooner than a soldier with 30k hp + spirits.

Those are your thoughts..
But still i see (and tested) people with pure hp outperforming people with spirits. Don't stick to the numbers. Obviously the defending numbers are higher for a person with spirits but this never translate in the actual fight.
All of this happens because the luck factor or w/e factor is behind the hit ratio is way too random.

I understand your point @Guiri . I didn't make it clear that i was talking about the difference between the defending bonus of a resistance set vs a pure (mostly) hp set like cortina. If those extra 5-15 defending bonus gives me 0 dodges then for me is a useless set.

 

[WhyN0t]

A soldier with 40k hp will die sooner than a soldier with 30k hp + spirits.

This is not really true. Spirit sets doesn't offer any defense, only flat resistance. You will lose a bunch of defense alongside hp with spirit sets, so you will be hit more times. I survive more using full cortina/bull than cortina/bull+ spirits with the mention that most of the ones who shoot me are damagers. If only tanks are shooting, then sure, you'll survive longer with the spirit set.