Valentine's Day 2023 - Discussion

[JustAMoment]

Soldier was already nerfed before tho, before he got 50% without premium, 100% with it :-) (like 7 years ago around worker rework i believe) :-D
Now its time to push it even more to 10/20% with those insane values. If they wanna keep it.

 

[WhyN0t]

Soldiers have 2 duel bonuses. Both extremly strong. They can keep the extra 100% hp because it's a dual bonus, for both forts and duels, but tactics should be nerfed or deleted. Either 15/30% tactics and buff workers and adventurers for duel or fully remove it and add another bonus for something else.

 

[WhyN0t]

I see that although you have reduced the exaggerated bonus for 2 and 3 items for the shooting set, you have kept it for the reflex set, which makes it very easy to combine and that's very good, congratulations. You've also added toughness on the horse set, it's a bit bloated now, which is not necessarily bad, but we could also use a new horse set with vigor. Firearm got jaguar, melee weapon still plays with cowgirl's which was weaker than vaquero's anyway (which is weaker than jaguar).
As for waupee's purple items I have mixed feelings. I'd still play with fancy leather hat, green silk pants and green silk scarf + bounty hunter, but if you want vigor and tactics, these new Waupee purple items are fine too. The problem is they might be way too good on soldiers. But you can't nerf them as it would be useless for other classes. It's a delicate situation.

https://imgur.com/a/Rr0kk5v

https://imgur.com/a/e5VF8Vv

 

[thenootz55]

Soldiers have 2 duel bonuses. Both extremly strong. They can keep the extra 100% hp because it's a dual bonus, for both forts and duels, but tactics should be nerfed or deleted. Either 15/30% tactics and buff workers and adventurers for duel or fully remove it and add another bonus for something else.

I do not really agree with this, to be honest. Why should all classes be relevant in a duel? Workers are meant for XP grinding, not duelling. Adventurers are meant to be adventurous, in other words farm products and at fort be sector holders.
You have 2 classes that have duel oriented bonuses, and the duelers can hit you from far away (if you do not check your duel tab for potential attackers, obviously). The soldier is meant to be a though nut to crack at fort or duel, but it's not impossible at all. Yes, soldiers do have HP and tactics bonus, but who says you need to KO the player all the time (HP bonus)?. For tactics, you just go T/R and that's always been the counter to it (you know that very well, but I'm just mentioning it for other readers).
As far as the new sets are concerned, I do like the reflex one, quite nice and will be fun to try.
The Firearm Josephine set is also nice, I checked it out on someone on Beta server and the bonuses did not seem that much (especially shooting). My Jaguar^3 is still going to be my go to for Shooting bonuses, but I need to check how the new set behaves in up2 or up3 version.
What I like now with all the sets added in time is that there is no more universal defense/offense set, everything becomes situational. And if the new set is a bit OP at first, people will find ways to counter it, it always happens.

 

[WhyN0t]

Your explanations about class bonuses have absolutely no logic, you just enumerated the bonuses of already existing classes )
Being adventurous is not about farming products, much less holding sectors at the fort, what does that have to do with being adventurous? And soldier is the class for forts, not for duels. For duels you have the duelist which doesn't have bonuses as strong as a soldier which is a paradox.
Additinally, you're a soldier, so you're biased.

https://imgur.com/a/g8Ul4rv

And i'm not saying you can never beat a soldier, you can reskill during the duel depending on the opponent's clothes and build and win, but do you really have to resort to that? The point isn't that you can or can't beat a soldier, the point is that soldier bonuses aren't fair. This game revolves around PvP, and all classes need to be balanced. No class has an advantage in adventures, which is fair. All classes have fort bonuses, which is fair (although adventuring has lagged behind in recent years). In duels only soldiers and duelists have bonuses and the soldier has those that can directly influence a duel result.

Not to mention that more than 10 years have passed since some of us chose our character classes, a lot has changed since then, it's not like we have the option to change our class. I assure you that there will be no more adventurers in the game (apart from product clones), and 90% of the duelists would be soldiers. Does it seems balanced to you?

My Jaguar^3 is still going to be my go to for Shooting bonuses

The set was slightly nerfed. It used to be even stronger. This new set +0 is still better than your jaguar +3. You can't compare it right now because the neckless is not a part of the set and you don't see the full set bonus if you are using the IR Combo Comparisons. You lose a bit of appearance, but you win a lot of dodging. Strictly as a total number of skills, the new +0 set is better than the jaguar +3. Jaguar's clothes are a little better than vauquero's after all, they were never great.

And if the new set is a bit OP at first, people will find ways to counter it, it always happens

Yes, of course, but if the set had kept its initial values, it wouldn't make much sense to use other sets like jaguar's or josephine's, because you would lose too many skill points. Although, with how small the received nerf is, I think that the jaguar's clothes will not be useful anyway. And it's a shame. At least the horse set and the weapons are still great.

 

[thenootz55]

My explanations about the existing bonuses were so that it conveys the fact that even though you have 4 different classes, they are not all meant to excel or have bonuses in all PvP experiences.
I agree that Soldiers are the best at duel overall, I'm just saying however that nothing is unbeatable in this game. Of course you have to resort to reskill, otherwise it becomes as dull as fort fights -> either 100% Leadership for damage, or 100% HP to tank up. It's not necessarily nice or pleasant when your opponent reskills mid duel and you lose, but shouldn't you expect that possibility?
And yes, maybe a lot of people would not choose Adventurer class given the option to change their class, but you're also biased here as your main account is an Adventurer. I know a lot of people that are simply not interested in being a top duelist and at forts they just come for fun. But they do like playing for Craft for example, so the Adventure bonus for products plays nice for them
And if there is to be a class re-balance, then it has to be done for all classes, not just "remove soldier tactics bonus and buff adventurer".

 

[WhyN0t]

it becomes as dull as fort fights -> either 100% Leadership for damage, or 100% HP to tank up

Well...the build may be dull, but the for fights don't consist in this aspect. You can actually play at fort fights, you can move, you can select in which zone you want to shoot etc. In duels you just combine items and wait 10 minutes for the results. Duels are dull, but the result is what makes them interesting. The result of fort fights is not as exciting as the duel result.

they do like playing for Craft for example, so the Adventure bonus for products plays nice for them

I simply do not believe you. Farming products and crafting items are supposed to be a secondary activity of the game. You make products for crafting so that you can restore hp and energy and to use improvements to be able to participate in PvP. That's the goal after all. Of course you can only play PvE if you want, but these players are in the minority. As a rule, there are those who are bored of the game, but they don't want or can't give up for good, so they farm products or build the church and lie to themselves that they are having fun. It doesn't increase your dopamine when you farm products, let's be serious. But it does after you win a duel or dodge well/hiting crits at the fort

but you're also biased here as your main account is an Adventurer

Not really. Lately I have been much more active in PvP from a duelist account. There was a time when I went at 3 forts a day and there were no 5v1 fakes, they were balanced forts. I also duel from time to time with this toon. And I also played soldier on several occasions. So, no, i'm not biased. I proposed increased tactics for Sarah's horse set, which would have favored the soldiers much more. I proposed that the john astor's horse set to be stronger than it is now, although it puts me at a complete disadvantage. And more. I don't think you've followed my posts enough.

 

[TheMegaira]

in the quest the duels are not counted, is this a bug ?

 

[Copchilu]

Soldiers have 2 duel bonuses. Both extremly strong. They can keep the extra 100% hp because it's a dual bonus, for both forts and duels, but tactics should be nerfed or deleted. Either 15/30% tactics and buff workers and adventurers for duel or fully remove it and add another bonus for something else.

Man you should stop complaining. Get over it, delete your charachter and start as a soldier. U're becoming lame .. just get over it.

I bet that if u were a soldier you wouldn't complain that you want lower bonuses bcs u're too op ))))

 

[ChickenMcGuy]

in the quest the duels are not counted, is this a bug ?

Thank you for reporting to us! We are working on this issue.

 

[Uchiha Madara]

Adventurers are meant to be adventurous, in other words farm products and at fort be sector holders.

This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time

Man you should stop complaining. Get over it, delete your charachter and start as a soldier. U're becoming lame .. just get over it.

I bet that if u were a soldier you wouldn't complain that you want lower bonuses bcs u're too op ))))

I see 2 soldiers trying not to get their OP character nerfed , well bad news it will get nerfed sooner or later because SURPRISE its OP

 

[Copchilu]

Bad news, u're not actually in position to tell me any kind of news ))))

 

[HolmesNick]

My explanations about the existing bonuses were so that it conveys the fact that even though you have 4 different classes, they are not all meant to excel or have bonuses in all PvP experiences.

Why not ?
Can everyone duel ? Yes
Can everyone fortfight? Yes
Can everyone farm? Yes
Everyone can do anything. Every class should have bonus for the 3 main aspects of the game. The main subjects of this game are Forts-Duels-Farm +w/e you want to add next.
Everyone should have a good bonus on those 3 subjects. We are asking for equal good bonus for every class.

 

[thenootz55]

Why not ?
Can everyone duel ? Yes
Can everyone fortfight? Yes
Can everyone farm? Yes
Everyone can do anything. Every class should have bonus for the 3 main aspects of the game. The main subjects of this game are Forts-Duels-Farm +w/e you want to add next.
Everyone should have a good bonus on those 3 subjects. We are asking for equal good bonus for every class.

Yes, everyone can play in all aspects of the game, but again, it doesn't have to be equal. It is, after all, a Multiplayer Online game, not quite an MMO, but some principles do apply, specifically the ROLES. Otherwise, just make 1 single class out of the 4 ones, and problem solved, equal foot for everyone.
Only that choosing a class is part of the decision tree of the game, it directly impacts HOW you will be playing the game. If you want duels and forts, well get a duelist or soldier class depending on the role you want to play. Don't pick Adventurer/Worker and complain that you can't duel or can't be a top fort fighter (I mean, Worker class is a bad example for forts here, but it does apply to duels).

This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time

I see 2 soldiers trying not to get their OP character nerfed , well bad news it will get nerfed sooner or later because SURPRISE its OP

Thanks, it was meant to be read in a funny and ironic note
I don't mind if the soldier class gets nerfed one way or another, but saying that it has to be nerfed just because some other classes suck at duel or fort is simply put idiotic. You'd better ask for some buffs for those classes instead (as some of you already pointed out), but my point still stands: in a Role Playing Game, not all roles should be good in all aspects of the game, it's literally against the ROLE playing purpose.

 

[HolmesNick]

Don't pick Adventurer/Worker and complain that you can't duel or can't be a top fort fighter (I mean, Worker class is a bad example for forts here, but it does apply to duels).

How should i know that my worker/advent after couple of years will be a useless character ?
Don't tell me to start over with a new character. Thats not a solution. If you can't balance a category, delete it from the game and leave us with 3 picks.

I am not asking to be equal. All i am saying is make it fun for everyone. An adventurer right now has 0 fun. He only helps with one way and thats if he gets "randomly lucky" and activates a good bonus. And all of that with 0 dodges - 0 damage - 0 bonds after the battle(they fixed that after 10 years of complaining). Have you ever imagined how many people have given up because their character was useless? I used to remember workers being the most useless character, but they renew them and now it's a pretty good class to pick.
Advents still have hotel bonuses with all these energy regen items

 

[Uchiha Madara]

in a Role Playing Game, not all roles should be good in all aspects of the game, it's literally against the ROLE playing purpose.

That is true , but that doesnt mean 1 role should be OP than the other

 

[thenootz55]

Don't tell me to start over with a new character. Thats not a solution

No, of course not, especially if you have an account that has built a large inventory over time (maybe with some premium items as well). My point, again, was not that other classes are fine (I even said above), rather that the solution here is to buff the other classes, not just blindly nerf one (so yeah, feel free to nerf the soldier if you want). But the buffs should not make all classes be good at all aspects of the game.

That is true , but that doesnt mean 1 role should be OP than the other

Yes, indeed it does not mean that. But all I have read so far on this forum (note that I have not followed it actively so I definitely missed things) is "soldiers are OP, nerf nerf nerf". Every single proposal I encountered was a nerf to soldier, but I have not read one single proposal for a buff to one/all of the other classes.

 

[HolmesNick]

No, of course not, especially if you have an account that has built a large inventory over time (maybe with some premium items as well). My point, again, was not that other classes are fine (I even said above), rather that the solution here is to buff the other classes, not just blindly nerf one (so yeah, feel free to nerf the soldier if you want). But the buffs should not make all classes be good at all aspects of the game.

Yes, indeed it does not mean that. But all I have read so far on this forum (note that I have not followed it actively so I definitely missed things) is "soldiers are OP, nerf nerf nerf". Every single proposal I encountered was a nerf to soldier, but I have not read one single proposal for a buff to one/all of the other classes.

The main issue with refreshing all characters is that it is less likely to happen than changing one class that is already way ahead of the rest.

 

[WhyN0t]

This game is not a regular RPG, pve stuff helps with pvp more than in other games. In other games you have to do PvP in order to get better items/buffs for PvP, but here is different. You have to farm products, spend time to do 15 sec jobs for money in order to get PvP items. You have to participate in events, usually with PvE stuff (mostly 10 minutes or 1 hour jobs, quests etc.) to get items, including PvP Items.
Of course, not all classes should have the same bonus, but that doesn't mean that only one or two classes should have advantages in PvP and the others not, especially when the game has changed a lot in recent years, the adventurer was good before , now it's not. Do you understand? This is not players' fault, and changing the class is not possible. I haven't seen anyone say that the adventurer should have advantages in adventures, as is normal, in fact, that's why he's an adventurer, right? You come and explain that the soldier must have advantages in duel, and the duelist in the forts, that's the logic you understand, a logic that makes no sense. If it was as you say, only the soldier had a fort bonus and 0 duel bonuses, only the duelist would have had duel bonuses, only the adventurer had bonuses in adventures (but he doesn't have any), etc.

There is no point in starting again on a new world, because all the new worlds die within 1 year and you would gave up everything you worked for in the last many years on your main.

 

[WhyN0t]

And something on topic:
Pearl's set was slightly nerfed. Now it offers 0.6 (x lvl) less skills than before at 6 items and 0.69 (x lvl) less skills than before at 5 items. It's a very small nerf, but it is something.

According to my calculations, the set bonus is the following:

2 items	0.2 aiming, 0.2 dodging, 0.2 shooting, 0.1 appearance (x lvl)
3 items	0.31 aiming, 0.31 dodging, 0.31 shooting, 0.2 appearance (x lvl)
4 items	0.5 aiming 0.5 dodging 0.5 shooting 0.4 appearance (x lvl)
5 items	0.7 aiming 0.7 dodging 0.7 shooting 0.61 appearance (x lvl)
6 items	0.8 aiming 0.8 dodging 0.8 shooting 0.8 appearance (x lvl)