Penalize HP in FF

[Richard Maverick]

Hi, in many battles I've encountered large groups of tanks FILLED with HP, It's almost impossible to take down. Tank after tank, and the rounds end.

Maybe add some TEAM penalty, so there are less general HP, and more bonus and strategy

Perhaps something like: (Attack and Defense) Bonus * Rival Team HP / Own Team HP, with that formula being recalculated every round, to be fair

That would create the incentive to remove all HP players, and concentrate in bonus, resistance and strategy, and also to make FF more balanced in terms of number of players

 

[the legit]

I strongly disagre, the HP is already penalized already via the Crits.

Everyone can shoot over 1500 dmg, some over 2000 per shot.

FFs in my server generally go around 35-45 rounds, rarely end on time (unless not enough online hp on either side to persue its prior end).

I would say currently the damage is a lot more overpowered. A lot of full leadership duelists in my server average around 2000 damage per shot in any given FF.

As I have told you before, I sit at 49k hp (fully upgraded leavenworth) and died in 18 shots taken this past month. It is common to die in under 40 shots taken.

Obviously if there isn't enough damage then the HP seems never ending. Seems like a team building problem.

Moreover, full leadership build is the one not being penalized, there is no downside to it.
By having more HP you deal less damage and crits eat up more of your hp so there is in fact already 2 game mechanics penalizing HP.

 

[Richard Maverick]

I strongly disagre, the HP is already penalized already via the Crits.

Actually not true. The crit value is always 10% of the HP, I see no penalty there. If it was a progressive %, maybe. Furthermore, there's a chance of making a crit shot, is not something certain.

Obviously if there isn't enough damage then the HP seems never ending. Seems like a team building problem.

If by team building problem you mean 46 real people vs 42 multi accounts all with Cortina or Leaven and just being there to let the rounds go by maybe

Moreover, full leadership build is the one not being penalized, there is no downside to it.

Yes! Leadership should be penalized as well. Full leadership and full HP should be strongly penalized imo

 

[the legit]

Actually not true. The crit value is always 10% of the HP, I see no penalty there.

The more HP you have, the higher the raw crit value.

At 20000 the base crit is 2000
At 40000 the base crit is 4000
...

The more HP you have, the more you are penalized for a critical hit.

Sure the % stays but the numerical value increases.

Which diminishes the raw value of every added point to the HP skill.

That for me describes a penalization because you are punished for it.

If by team building problem you mean 46 real people vs 42 multi accounts all with Cortina or Leaven and just being there to let the rounds go by maybe

Straw man argument, never argued such.

I would suggest though, if you feel like there's not enough damage on your team, change your build in ES1 server and become a full leadership worker and do tons of damage since the 20k hp you are rocking isn't needed as there is a surplus.
Maybe advise more to follow that idea and maybe your team will have enough damage.

Yes! Leadership should be penalized as well. Full leadership and full HP should be strongly penalized imo

The FF balance is at its core DAMAGE vs HEALTH.

You adjust the balance by nerfing or buffing either.

Eg.: The attacking side was winning too much because of the strong damage set, lets release a better defending tank set. This will result in defending side winning more.

Pick a side if you feel the balance is one sided, saying both need to be nerfed doesn't amount to anything and goes against your own argument of trying to nerf the HP.
If now you argue the damage needs nerf then you're defeating your starting argument that HP is overpowered and needs a nerf.

Something being over or underpowered in FFs you generally are comparing to the counter part of Health or Damage.
The health is overpowered ? That must mean there isn't enough damage.
The damage is overpowered ? That must mean there isn't enough HP

Sure aim/dodge plays a part too, but works in the same way.

 

[WhyN0t]

Hi, in many battles I've encountered large groups of tanks FILLED with HP, It's almost impossible to take down. Tank after tank, and the rounds end.

A few days ago people were complaining that a set that has TWICE as much HP as Bull is too weak, and you say this... LOL

 

[Uchiha Madara]

Actually not true. The crit value is always 10% of the HP, I see no penalty there. If it was a progressive %, maybe. Furthermore, there's a chance of making a crit shot, is not something certain.

You are forgetting something very very important. It's not actually 10% but 20%( with prem ofc ) , and lets be real , out of lets say 40 duelers , only 5-10 will not have premium. All others will be with premium , and increasing the crit value + the more damage because of the more HP then you will have MORE damage from duelers. I don't know how you guys play in the Spanish server but it seems your team or whatever team you are reffering to either has almost 0 duelers or they simply dont play with prem or they are all weak. Nowadays , full HP tanks are just for decoration , they mostly die in less than 10-15 rounds.

 

[Football]

Hi, in many battles I've encountered large groups of tanks FILLED with HP, It's almost impossible to take down. Tank after tank, and the rounds end.

Maybe add some TEAM penalty, so there are less general HP, and more bonus and strategy

Perhaps something like: (Attack and Defense) Bonus * Rival Team HP / Own Team HP, with that formula being recalculated every round, to be fair

That would create the incentive to remove all HP players, and concentrate in bonus, resistance and strategy, and also to make FF more balanced in terms of number of players

Have you ever played with tank?
I get 3-4 crit and the battle is over for me....

 

[BaggyBlue]

As Uchiha said it's up to the duelist. If you have 6 duelists at Att and only 2 in Deff. You can't win with soldiers or ABT. And not everyone has money to buy Premium or VIP. If you forget the red character bonus, it's not your opponent's fault. And who the game master forgets to tell. His fault. That's what the 24 hour buffers are for. Not as decoration. And with punishment Na Na Na that makes you very unpopular!

There are very good ones who can do math at fk. If ABT has very good evasion and Lp you need over 50 laps. Even if you're a good soldier, you'll last a long time. I often take part in the Summer Spirits set to last longer. A lot of people have Bull or Leav. at level 2 to 3 Good captain's weapon like assistant chef weapon. Or like me Fry's set.

The most important thing in fortfighting is to protect the duelists. If you don't do that, it's your own fault!

 

[martoru]

last night on colo
battle was 55 rounds... in last round i lost +15k hp and my play ended in round 13

 

[Emma Swan]

If you wanna nerf HP, lets cancel FF because no one will dare to put tank set on lol

Usually each server has too much duelists, and if they are not many, you have builders and soldiers that can do strong dmg if rng on their side. If you have adventurer that are not needy, make them as dmger as well. All you need is upgraded strong weapon set and solid clothes. Higher level and higher clothes upgraded = stronger hit and better chance to hit. On some servers soldiers and builders go dmg because they simply lack of duelists and result is pretty even. The point is, doesnt matter if you have 20 duelers or 20 builders as dmg, your tanks need to stay alive longer than 3 rounds. Otherwise you are doomed anyway. I know builders and soldiers that do as much or close overal dmg as high quality duelists.

Usually this game is about being as effective in game and role you play as possible. Or, role you need to play today, which may differ from yesterday. You can focus on being tank and collect and upgrade tank sets, but you will get to the point when you may need dmg sets and fill up the gap when couple of duelists wont arrive to FF, which happens quite often.

Put everything in green and leadership. Thats the most basic build for being both. You maye loos little bit of your dmg from loosing point in leadership, but you get dodging and hiding, meaning in attack you will be stronger as tank and as dmger as well. It will help you in def as tank, and if dmg, no worry, you may have already more than enough setting traps from your set and being on the tower you are more than fine. And if you are a builder, well, thats probably the best build in perfect scenario. (now its greens + hp).

As town, choose 2 days everyone and go collect products for buffs, 2 days are nothing, share it with each other, its easier, probably the most effective way. But, there is our lovely RNG which makes sure you may not understand what the hell is going on during the FF, but that you cant do nothing about unfortunately. InnoGames must wake up and move their butts.

And, there is another option as on some servers which is ridiculous but some people do it anyway, they make low level duelists, put them basic set and they usually crit couple of times per battle. I do not recommend that, just saying the obvious.

PS: As for guns, you dont necessary necessary need weapon made for FF dmg, i know players with zapata on 2, 3, some even on 4 that makes huge dmg. You will probably get some bonus sector from your friends.


so, bottom line, NO PENALTY for hp, we already have one which sucks ..... so high lol

 

[BaggyBlue]

Hello,

A few people and I tested the new FK update last night and got new insights that we don't want to withhold from you:

1. LP are still important LPs are still the be-all and end-all for FKs. Nothing will change that anytime soon!

2. Red LP is history Since the "Stamina" skill has been removed from the FK formula, the skill with all attributes on strength and all FPs on LP is no longer recommended. The weaknesses of this skill became apparent yesterday, especially in the Att, as you only get hit and don't hit anything yourself.

3. Blue and green are the new red After point 2, the question naturally arises: If red is no longer good, where do the APs go? We found an answer to that yesterday too: it will be skill and/or agility. Background: Green: Hide and evade Blue: trapping and targeting Recommendations on who should skill and how will follow later!

4. Clothes sets Of course, the FK sets have been adjusted according to the changes. In general, nothing has changed in the values of the sets. However, yesterday it was noted that some are now "playing" better and others worse than before. As described above, this is due, on the one hand, to the devaluation of the red skill. This affects e.g. the scout set. This gives extremely many attributes on red, which now "only" bring LPs. The set is still good, but not as good as before. Now why have other sets become better? This comes from the change in the exponent for the aim and dodge values. That means specifically: All sets that involve dodging and aiming now play better than before. We were particularly impressed by the Bob Dalton set and the Shawnee set. I then looked at the other sets: Deadwods set should now be much better than before. We will continue to gain experience here, which will then result in another “update” here.

5. Non-FKers at FKs So dear duelists, the time for excuses like: “You can’t do FKs with dueling skills” are over! Due to the improvements to the aiming and evasion values described above, duelists are now generally very suitable for FKs. Put on your FK set and JOIN!

6. The New Special Forces: Workers Due to the changes to the workers' FK bonus, they are now worlds better in terms of stats compared to other classes of the same level! Even in Deff, they are still a real force, especially on their ET!

7. Skill recommendations IMPORTANT: These recommendations have now been tested by a few people and have proven themselves in maneuvers. However, you still have to look further to see how well the skills perform in "normal" FCs. But now to the recommendations: - For Soldis/LP tanks, I recommend a green LP skill from the tests. It sounds strange at first, but yesterday I survived on average 10% longer than with red HP because I dodged significantly better. This is especially true in the attack. By hiding, this skill is very strong in the attack and promises good hit and dodge rates while still maintaining high LP. The skill is particularly worthwhile for non-PA users! I.e.: APs on mobility, FPs on life points (adaptation to the FK set can sometimes make sense!)

- For duelists and workers I recommend a blue-green skill. Unfortunately, we don't yet know exactly what the ratio should be, but we suspect that something between 1:1 and 1:2 will make sense. Since LPs are still very important, as described above, a large proportion of the FPs for duelists/workers should also be set to LP. Duelists with PA can consider distributing FPs to Leiten. You are welcome to discuss this with me in detail. I.e.: APs on agility/skill in a ratio between 2:1 and 1:1 (i.e. more agility than skill), FPs on LP, if necessary leadership (here too, an adjustment to the FK set can be useful)

- Let's move on to the last class, the adventurers. Green skills are also recommended here. Kara is currently testing around with it a bit. I'll keep you ABTs updated on this I.e. APs on green (will be discussed in more detail! - Update on this will follow), FPs on LP

I hope I was able to answer some of your questions and hope that we as Chaos continue to put the FK elite on Hannahville!

Emma says so. Really good test and effective if everyone takes part

PS: I tried out Strength and Heath as soldiers and got some nasty punches. Then Green Drink won and reversed. Unfortunately for the defense Blue Skill and Heath. and I lasted longer than with strength and life point. Because the set always has an influence. There is no set, just strength and health.

 

[I AM INEVITABLE]

As i see it duelist beats soldier soldier beats worker and worker beats duelist. So it also depends the what your team character composition is and what their skills are

 

[Emma Swan]

Has new formula been tested?

As for builds, I have tried so many I cant even count. To go half green half blue for dmer makes sense if you are above level 160 in my opinon, and if you have John Astor clothes and Sousa clothes upgraded on 2 you dont event notice it in FF, but result will be better. Thats what I am doing now for almost 2 weeks and result is great. I hit more than when I had full yellow. Full leadership stayed as it was. But I still couldnt hit with 380 somebody who had 130 change to dodge 4x for example I felt embarassed lol.

I remember when I was testing blue + aim full, I was hitting smaller numbers but still above 1000 and overall my dmg was quite high because I was able to crit more. Now I am testing being tank as dueler and dmg always above 25k like nothing, I actually crit better as tank than dmg which is weird. Its one huge neverending circle of what if who and when + rng. We had situation when level i think he was not even 100 did crit 14 times

Call me crazy but from what I have seen, I am struggling to dodge lower levels than I am, but have almost no problem to dodge high end dmgers. As for hit, I usually miss when aiming on dmger or lower level, but high level machines i hit like nothing There is now funny saying - go get less bonus to hit and dodge more Grass is usually more effective than tower or whatever higher from the grass. I believe most of tanks have problem with low levels and their delicious crits

 

[dublik]

As i see it duelist beats soldier soldier beats worker and worker beats duelist. So it also depends the what your team character composition is and what their skills are

adventurers: helo