Old sets versus the new sets

[alexstraszaPT]

Hello,

I have been a part of this game for over a decade, and at the same time I played The West, I also played other games that are as old, if not older than The West, but made major changes that were necessary to maintain the game perfectly for everyone.

I will take, for example, League of Legends, a game with over 13 years of existence and champions as old as the game. For example, Ashe, an attack damage carry that has an old kit yet is still a playable character, can't even match the new stock clothes from the town at all, which doesn't make much sense considering that the Cullen Baker is an event set. More than that, the Tinglit weapons are outdamaged by level 0 event weapons in duels with ease. I won't even bring the Inferno weapon because that would be disgusting.

What I mean with this suggestion is to actually adapt every set to the new and current era. Obviously, now you will counter with "but then why should we do the new sets if the old ones are just as good as the new ones" but that is not exactly what it is to be about; it should be to offer variety and possibility to everyone. Because every set that comes out is often better than the previous, it forces a crash in the market, and the older players (often the richest) can get their set to level 2 even before some guys can even get one piece of the set from the market due to inflation. This makes the game a capitalism simulation; it is not that I am a communist; it is just that I have way too many sets in my inventory that are worth nothing to the old man shop; I can't unlevel them; I can't share them with friends; they are literally stuck in my inventory being worth nothing, not being used, not being sold, not being borrowed.

My level 5 sniper has been in my inventory since January 8th, 2017. I have probably used it for 1 month, then new weapons came out, and never once have I touched it. 13.000.000 dollars spent for nothing because a simple weapon with stats can outdamage one of the most expensive weapons in the game; even the shiny golden gun can outperform the sniper in every battle.

Innogames is either sleeping or not paying attention to the gaming community but in every game nowadays, the devs adapt to the players needs, not the other way around, the portuguese worlds are completely dead, there is only 1 world that is active and the best fort battles have like 30vs30 and there is like 3 or 4 guys doing duels around, this is the best scenario for the portuguese guys, the game is not even fun no longer, I'd rather play tribalwars and get smashed after 2 weeks than coming back to the-west with a exp top80 account, rank 20 fortbattle and strong duelist sets, it is boring to compete with this kind of scenario where I have to either spam IRL money into the game to keep up with every set or just deal with the fact that the guy with an account from the PT4 is richer than mine that started in PT13.

 

[John Wick]

InnoGames should provide us players with a process that allows us to resell upgraded items or reverse the upgrade.
Gladly also about nuggets (if it is not overpriced). For example, many other online games provide a kind of "jewel / gem", which allows items to be sold once, even though they have been upgraded. Maybe also an idea for The-West? (@Loki @ChickenMcGuy )

I'd rather have a single chance to sell the item than have it rust away in my inventory.

But let's be honest... we don't even manage to balance the fort battles let alone adjust the characters. So many great ideas that are never heard anywhere, let alone implemented... It's like sending a message in space and hoping to get a response someday. We don't have the capacity to do that.The game simply has far too many open construction sites that need to be improved as a priority.

 

[WhyN0t]

LoL is a completely different game from The West. There everyone is more or less equal. Here whoever has newer, rarer items, bigger upgrades is at an advantage. There's a big difference between a MOBA and an RPG. InnoGames should be doing a lot more than trying to revitalize old items. They were good in their time, their time has passed, we need to move on.

 

[Uchiha Madara]

I'm not trying to sound offensive , but did you just compare the most un-equal game ( LoL ) with The-West? As a LoL player since 2009 ( almost since the release ) the game has surely changed in many shapes and forms but the main things still exists, OVERPOWERED champions that have unlimited dashes , roles that you cannot simply play ( ADC for example ) the most toxic and the most egotistical game that has ever came out. But enough with League.

I would totally agree that we need a feature that allows us to degrade already upgraded items , it can be double the price in nuggets and cash , many of us have many sets that used to be good but not anymore that are +2 or +3 , if you can degrade so many sets you can equip many players even if the sets are old. I honestly don't understand as to why this feature doesn't exist yet....

 

[alexstraszaPT]

LoL is a completely different game from The West. There everyone is more or less equal. Here whoever has newer, rarer items, bigger upgrades is at an advantage. There's a big difference between a MOBA and an RPG. InnoGames should be doing a lot more than trying to revitalize old items. They were good in their time, their time has passed, we need to move on.

I am sorry but I don't care what kind of game we compare, what I meant is the riot devs actually listen to the community and make changes and adapt the game, that was my point, never to compare styles or game type at all but you took it exactly to where it shouldn't be taken. Anyway, my point stands, the oldest champions are still played and used to this day, answering to @Uchiha Madara as well, as a league player since 2010 I can for sure say one thing, Ashe is still viable, same as Lee Sin and many others, your rant on the game is justifiable since the game is garbage but again that was never the point.

@WhyN0t the items indeed had their prime but let's look it like this, I have a North Face jacket for 5 years and it is still one of my best jackets, imagine that instead of it lasting 5 years while wearing it every winter, I would need to buy a new one every 3 months but adding to that I am not even close to the richest guy on earth and everyone wants a north face jacket and instead of the usual 200 euros now it costs over 600 euros because the demand is higher than the supply. This happens when PT4 accounts are playing vs PT13 accounts, they simply have over 8 years of farming ahead of me, both EXP, Money and items, not even to mention the ability advantage over time but that is irrelevant in the long term considering the amount of overpowered items. Innogames shouldn't be working on the older sets but they shouldn't build new ones either, why did I spend thousands of dollars in-game to get all the tolbert items on Kansas world on PT where the playerbase is below 20 a day (barely any item on the market at all, in fact just to prove my point, the WHOLE MARKET list is 1 page and half lmfao), how am I supposed to get the new items if there isn't even any players to trade with or if I don't get lucky enough opening 50x the 9k event package? How am I supposed to compete when the migrations come if I didn't manage to get the items because all innogames can do is: spam event > open new world > spam event > open new world? This isn't reliable at all, its dumb in some sense, the player growth is close to zero at this point (got no statistic to back it up but from what I can see it is always the same players on the new worlds and fewer and fewer get online at this point), the problem isn't the game, the game is actually fun, you have quests (loads of it), you have duels, you have inventory, you have tons of EXP to level if you wish, infinite construction if you want and fortbattles, not to mention the adventures! The issue is any new player will get dog water by any oldschool guy, it is just impossible to compete with guys with Lucille weapons at level 4 when you got to the game just now even if you spend 5000€.

This game can't keep the old ones and can't attract the new ones long enough, before level 150+ update it was hard enough to fight the veterans, now? It is impossible, they went from 150 to 200+ in 1 second and their amount of stats skyrocketed making it so hard to compete with. Is it fair since they play for so long? Of course it is, I am myself 175 at this point on my oldest account, but I regret deleting my PT2 account over the PT13 because I had a stupid useless class on PT2 and useful on PT13 over the EXP. Hell the best damage dealer on PT11 is an adventurer with lucille 4 and tons of abilities, the man has the special weapon from the speed servers and he never uses it at all for any reason or porpuse and the weapon is god damn insane!

It makes no sense to have a sniper that costed 13.000.000$ getting rusty on my inventory for 5 years, not a single game forces this on the accounts, it is just stupid and ignorant, people have been asking for the item release or trade when updated for years now and not a single dev came to speak on why it is not allowed.

Am I triggered for spending too much time and money on this game? Yeah probably, spent too much time on the portuguese server, waiting to read the message "you can now migrate to the DE or NET server to actually PLAY WITH PEOPLE instead of playing an OFFLINE church simulator with items stuck on your inventory that within 3 months will be useless, but thank you for upgrading it to level 2 while spending 200 euros"

 

[WhyN0t]

Anyway, my point stands, the oldest champions are still played and used to this day

It's not the same thing. They can nerf/buffs champions whenever they want. And they have enough budget to pay their devs. Ofc, InnoGames can (and should) buff/nerf character classes, but to buff old items? Why?

 

[Uchiha Madara]

Take in consideration this:

You invest in a watch for $10,000 , it carries the risk of potential depreciation over time, leading to a loss in value. In such a situation, one might consider selling the watch or waiting for the possibility of its price increasing again. While this example may not be a perfect comparison to the items mentioned previously, it highlights the importance of considering investment risks and potential returns.

Also , before 5 years you would need a lot of time to accumulate $13,000,000 which now with the sets we have you can accumulate way faster.



P.S. This is not a financial advice.

 

[Criminus]

Riot devs are not listening the community. They listen to crying babies on Reddit.

 

[alexstraszaPT]

Take in consideration this:

You invest in a watch for $10,000 , it carries the risk of potential depreciation over time, leading to a loss in value. In such a situation, one might consider selling the watch or waiting for the possibility of its price increasing again. While this example may not be a perfect comparison to the items mentioned previously, it highlights the importance of considering investment risks and potential returns.

Also , before 5 years you would need a lot of time to accumulate $13,000,000 which now with the sets we have you can accumulate way faster.



P.S. This is not a financial advice.

You are aware that if you invest 10k on a watch there is more likely to be worth more after 5 years than less, right? On the other hand if you said 10k on a car, yes the depreciation is a real thing.

However, the sniper still has the same value on the shop, for that reason why isn't it cheaper then if it got depreciated? Can't I sell it for 6.000.000 since it got depreciated? Why is it stuck in my inventory? Why I am forced to spend every event over 1.500.000 to have a level 0 set to compete with monsters who have over 100.000.000 in the bank because their accounts are old? I am speaking against myself, I own a PT13 account playing vs PT17 accounts and new registers, I have advantage over them, but i dont really want to because I actually want some activity.

PT19 has less than 50 market orders, it is disgusting to log in, wanting to buy stuff and not being able to, man I can't even make products to get job motivation back since there are no players with such job lol

 

[Uchiha Madara]

You are aware that if you invest 10k on a watch there is more likely to be worth more after 5 years than less, right? On the other hand if you said 10k on a car, yes the depreciation is a real thing.

It was just a random example.

 

[DeletedUser5314]

You really can't compare moba champions to items in RPG game, better comparison would be mmorpg games like wow/ffxiv etc. and most of those games do release new and better items every few months/increase level cap every few years. RPG without character progression gets boring quickly.

 

[alexstraszaPT]

You really can't compare moba champions to items in RPG game, better comparison would be mmorpg games like wow/ffxiv etc. and most of those games do release new and better items every few months/increase level cap every few years. RPG without character progression gets boring quickly.

I did play Metin2 for decades and they inserted new levels, items and dungeons with time, proper timing, not every 2 months new overpowered stuff that makes your oldstuff get rekt, even if they did, YOU CAN SELL YOUR OLD KIT TO BUY THE NEW ONE. What if I want to sell my old Phoebe Mosey at level 2 to improve my new set? Because the new lvl 140 guys don't have money for new stuff so they could actually buy and use a Phoebe lvl 2 to actually be part of the game? But no, the Phoebe will die in my inventory.

 

[DeletedUser5314]

I agree that they should give us option to dissasemble upgraded items - or just make upgraded items tradeable, it would be great help for new players. But I am not sure where you are getting new overpovered items every 2 months - cortina is still the best tank defense gear and captain items are only now getting replaced by sousa (with captain still being useable) , both of those sets came out in 2020.

 

[Uchiha Madara]

@Loki Any chance you can forward again the idea which should've been a feature since the initial release to be able to de-grade already up-graded items?

 

[roland jacobs]

@Loki Any chance you can forward again the idea which should've been a feature since the initial release to be able to de-grade already up-graded items?

I don't get it, you upgrade items knowing it can't be undone and then complain about it? Just don't upgrade, problem solved. You're causing an issue and then expecting them to change something that was never designed to do. Users like you are why my job is so frustrating.

 

[alexstraszaPT]

I don't get it, you upgrade items knowing it can't be undone and then complain about it? Just don't upgrade, problem solved. You're causing an issue and then expecting them to change something that was never designed to do. Users like you are why my job is so frustrating.

You are forced to upgrade it lol. How are you supposed to compete being level 160 with NO upgrades with lvl 200s with level 2 sets every release? It is just outrageous what you said. Do you still have Windows XP? No one forced you to get 10/11 so.

@Uchiha Madara either downgrade items or make them tradeable, either way just making the items rotten in the inventory is dumb and pointless.

 

[Uchiha Madara]

I don't get it, you upgrade items knowing it can't be undone and then complain about it? Just don't upgrade, problem solved. You're causing an issue and then expecting them to change something that was never designed to do. Users like you are why my job is so frustrating.

You must be delusional , where did I complain ever about upgraded items not being degradable? When you add a feature that allows you to upgrade certain stuff it's only logical to have a feature that also does the opposite. You got heated by someone else and try to take your anger on a legitimately good idea that can bring InnoGames profit if they decide that degrading items should be only used by nuggets. I also don't understand what's your problem? What's wrong for asking for a feature that should've been in the game?

Users like you are why this game is dead. Go back to cherry picking and church building simulator in your dead world.


P.S. Next time when you speak try not being hateful and change the scenarios for you own liking.

 

[roland jacobs]

You are forced to upgrade it lol. How are you supposed to compete being level 160 with NO upgrades with lvl 200s with level 2 sets every release?

Forced? Interesting choice of a word.
Your level 2 can't compete with their level 2, so your efforts are futile. Your level 0 at their level 0 can't compete either.
If your level 2 at 160 is beating their level 0 at 200, then they just don't know what they're doing, or you're beating up a church builder.

either downgrade items or make them tradeable, either way just making the items rotten in the inventory is dumb and pointless.

Who is going to buy the out of date junk at whatever price? It will just rot in their inventory and be pointless. Seriously, is anyone going to buy a level 5 collins shirt?? Job sets drop with most events, within 3 events, any new char should be well equipped, and most chars have enough spares laying around to pass out some items.

When you add a feature that allows you to upgrade certain stuff it's only logical to have a feature that also does the opposite.

No, not really logical. If you're making something better by upgrading it, who wants to make it worse by downgrading it? Play the long team game instead of being the "best" for a couple months. And, with events almost monthly, some months even have 2 events at the same time, there's plenty of opportunities for a player to get the newest best instead of your upgraded junk from 2016.

InnoGames should be doing a lot more than trying to revitalize old items. They were good in their time, their time has passed, we need to move on

^ that is the perfect response to any of the old vs new, upgrades/downgrades

 

[Guiri]

I have a PSSR level 5 that cost 13,5M which I never use, I have a precise nickel plated axe level 5 that was made useless when the new golden weapons were introduced 2 months after I upgraded it.
Do I ask for downgrades or selling of upgraded items? No, I don´t.

This is a game and for me it´s fun to grind to get the amount needed to buy the things I want. Also I understand that one day they will be obsolete and I will have to grind for other items. Something you get very easily has no real value to you, if you have to work for month for something you will appreciate it more.
What I hear here seems more like "I don´t like this toy anymore, give me my money back for it so that I can buy a newer toy". Go out and get a job and earn some money and buy the new toy yourself would be my advice. If you don´t like your old toy and feel it´s rottening in your inventory, sell it to the trader. You have options.
Plus those level 200 with level 2 items, how did they get the items? Did InnoGames give them to them for being level 200? Or did they grind for a long time to generate enough money for themselves? If you believe they used bots or multies then you should report them instead of complaining on a forum. Also please bear in mind that those people will have a lot more upgraded items in their inventory and if you allow downgraded they will possibly generate hundreds of millions from them and then when you have your level 2, they will have level 4.

I am 100% against downgrading or selling upgraded items even though it would make me very rich.

 

[alexstraszaPT]

I have a PSSR level 5 that cost 13,5M which I never use, I have a precise nickel plated axe level 5 that was made useless when the new golden weapons were introduced 2 months after I upgraded it.
Do I ask for downgrades or selling of upgraded items? No, I don´t.

This is a game and for me it´s fun to grind to get the amount needed to buy the things I want. Also I understand that one day they will be obsolete and I will have to grind for other items. Something you get very easily has no real value to you, if you have to work for month for something you will appreciate it more.
What I hear here seems more like "I don´t like this toy anymore, give me my money back for it so that I can buy a newer toy". Go out and get a job and earn some money and buy the new toy yourself would be my advice. If you don´t like your old toy and feel it´s rottening in your inventory, sell it to the trader. You have options.
Plus those level 200 with level 2 items, how did they get the items? Did InnoGames give them to them for being level 200? Or did they grind for a long time to generate enough money for themselves? If you believe they used bots or multies then you should report them instead of complaining on a forum. Also please bear in mind that those people will have a lot more upgraded items in their inventory and if you allow downgraded they will possibly generate hundreds of millions from them and then when you have your level 2, they will have level 4.

I am 100% against downgrading or selling upgraded items even though it would make me very rich.

Damn, I have no idea where to begin with to desmantle that text.

1st: I do play this game since 2009, talking to me "about grinding" is something hilarious since I gave up a 190ish level account for a 170ish level account just because one was adventurer and other a dueller, I know how to value things since I lost my best account just because I can't change my char (which btw is ridiculous but it is what it is)

2nd: Every game and in real life you can in fact exchange old stuff, I am not sure where you live, but when I buy a new car, I sell my old one for at least 70% of the value I paid for lmao. I guess adults and grown men know about this instead telling someone to go get a job.

3rd: Who is here complaining about someone being lvl 200 or 100? We are talking about the unfair advantage of a PT1/2/3/4 account playing vs the PT17 account, it is not like they both started at the same time, hell if I had my 2009 account vs my 2019 account nowadays I would have been WAY richer than I am today, but I had to give up everything for dueller bonus If the game wasn't dead in our servers there would be no need to mix PT1/2/3/4 accounts with PT17/18 accounts. On the other hand, if they would make migrations to the NET / German server I would gladly accept because as stated before: my top5 EXP account on PT19 can't buy a single item because there is less than 10 people online at the moment 10pm in portugal on a sunday.

4th: No one here talked about bots / multies and at this point, are the really bannable? I've seen outrageous boosts from newcomers that are 200% multies and got reported and nothing happened, there are VPNs and browsers to assist you with everything lmao. It is no sense to even bring that to this topic.