• Howdy partner! You seem new here. Why don't you make an account and join the discussion? You can register here.
    Already have one? Then you login here!
  • Welcome to the saloon, Guest!
    This is the place where you can discuss about anything you want! Well, almost.
    Try to not break any of the Rules whenever you post otherwise the sheriff might lock you down!
  • Love is in the air!

    If you're not a fan of the hearts, you have the ability to disable them using the red menu located on the right.

Black Heart of the Dead set NEED TO BE NERFED!

Bomba Voyager

Reservist
After the fix introduced for the BHD set, recent fort battles on .net/colorado clearly showed that this set is too strong for attackers. Giving 36 people in one large sector +17 attack value drastically increase the odds for a tank to receive hits and receiving frequent hits from "weaker" duelers means getting erased in 1-2 turns whether you are a fully skilled& good geared FF tank or just any other player with +17k HP. Notice that when this set and sousa combined a player gets +38 attack value which is increadible. Also, this set gives sector damage which scales with levels that means non-damager players hitting again more often and harder.

Just check benben7, yammie, immortalmadguys and martoru's defence stats before and after the BHD fix. I don't tell you high level players with insane gear should dominate FFs but just imagine being a tank not on these players level and without their gears.

In conclusion i think this set's sector attack bonus must be lowered from 17 to 3-5 sector attack + 10-12 individual attack bonus. And no, introducing a set with sector def bonus will not change anything because giving ONE point tank +17 def bonus and giving THIRTY SIX players +17 attack bonus to shoot that tank statistically not same.
 

Richard Maverick

Lance Corporal
Also, this set gives sector damage which scales with levels that means non-damager players hitting again more often and harder.
Agree

But I think they made it on purpose, so Kodiak is usefull again

Also, +17 attack is not that much imo, the odds of land a hit are not that much higher (remember that the game chooses a number between 0 and the players bonuses, and compares, that way is hit or miss)
 

Bomba Voyager

Reservist
Agree

But I think they made it on purpose, so Kodiak is usefull again

Also, +17 attack is not that much imo, the odds of land a hit are not that much higher (remember that the game chooses a number between 0 and the players bonuses, and compares, that way is hit or miss)
I agree with you in terms of the diminishing return for one player having more attack/defence value after some threshold value like 250 but while analyzing how +17 attack value for 36 players affects the tanking, you should consider the independent cumulative probability distribution of the random variable (event of someone shooting and hitting). Also, as i argued before, statistical information also supports how that +17 attack value affected the performance of tanks (just check the before and after fix update stats). A sharp drop in number of dodges for defending tanks is easy to observe, but more importantly number of hits taken decreased which supports my claims about number of crits per tanks received also increased with more attack value.
 

WhyN0t

Master Sergeant
I would only nerf the sector attack from the horse set and weapons. If you want to nerf the sector attack from the clothes, you should buff them in terms of leadership (and maybe setting traps/hiding), because the clothes are worse than murrieta's if you ignore the sector attack bonus.
 

Emma Swan

Lance Corporal
I remember some players laughing when I wrote that this will happen :D Sector bonus attack should have never been introduced with that set and for sure not with free set. As I said, ride can stay as sector bonus, rest just for player wearing it. I am dead by people not even having good set for FF, but with that bonus they can do 3k as duelers at level 50 with a bow 3x per fight. Its crazy .....

Also, dmg sector should also be changed from sector to normal its too much to handle, not to mention even leavenwroth is struggling ....

If you wanna boost leadership, nerf bonus dmg for sure, otherwise it will be too strong for free set. I find this as hybrid murrieta x ron. If you boost leadership too much, it will be reflextion to Sousa and we deserve new set like that with possibility to upgrade it.

PLEASE release next year more FF sets, not some Adv. sets or set for cutting wood with 600% for praying.
 

Bomba Voyager

Reservist
I would only nerf the sector attack from the horse set and weapons. If you want to nerf the sector attack from the clothes, you should buff them in terms of leadership (and maybe setting traps/hiding), because the clothes are worse than murrieta's if you ignore the sector attack bonus.
No need to buff leadership, just decrease the sector attack to +2-5 and make the rest individual attack bonus. It's that simple.
 

WhyN0t

Master Sergeant
The clothes are quite bad and without the high sector attack I dont think many people will play with them. That's why I said to buff the skills a little bit if you nerf de sector attack even if you slightly increase the flat attack.
 

Artem124

Sergeant
Omg new fort set gives too much sector bouns. now forts can be taken.. Thank gosh .. we can finally start taken forts in az then
after multiple years of winning 1/100 attacks because of how broken defense is....
 

Mullet

Reservist
Omg new fort set gives too much sector bouns. now forts can be taken.. Thank gosh .. we can finally start taken forts in az then
after multiple years of winning 1/100 attacks because of how broken defense is....
Nah, the defense is not broken anymore. With the introduction of Sousa / Leaven, the FFs were the most balanced in years. +17 sector attack is simply too much. Even on newer worlds tanks in defense, with good reskill, maxed out fort etc. can hold for like what? 1 to 3 rounds? Some of them started to respec to dmg because, simply, it´s not enjoyable.

I see two solutions to BHD set:
Either nerf the amount of sector attack value (really, 25 duellers with improved Sousa and good fort weapon can run you over within one round- so we are back at it again, where tanks simply cannot get any value from FFs- low xp, little to no bonds etc.) My suggestion is to keep +5 as a sector bonus and +10 as an individual bonus. Given this numbers, the bonus is not so horrendous and in a way, everyone will be winner. Keep the damage bonus, so the Kodiak will matter again.

Or give tanks a simillar defense set, with high defense bonus and increasing resistance by leveling up, but Kodiak will, sadly, not matter anymore. We all want that big ol´ chubby cub to be part of our FF gear again.

Also, it would be really great, if tanks could get suitable obtainable attack weapons (Bull weapons are from the sale, remember, and there is no guarantee, that InnoGames will bring back the sale in coming months). It´s laughable, that tanks have to calculate with defensive weapon set, such as Cortina or Leaven in their ATTACKING set.
 

Uchiha Madara

Master Sergeant
Is it only broken because of 5-10 people don't like the idea of having lots of + attack as support? Or is broken that communities come together to make sure it gets nerfed? I hope if the set will change , not being because 5 people just dont like the set , for a set to be totally nerfed it needs more than 100 people to agree on it and not just 5. ( 100 is a pure example , it should be higher )
 

Mullet

Reservist
Is it only broken because of 5-10 people don't like the idea of having lots of + attack as support? Or is broken that communities come together to make sure it gets nerfed? I hope if the set will change , not being because 5 people just dont like the set , for a set to be totally nerfed it needs more than 100 people to agree on it and not just 5. ( 100 is a pure example , it should be higher )
As Voyager pointed out, the data supports claims, that BHD is too overpowered. The topic appeared 24 hours ago, so your argument about needing more people to agree with either side is still premature.
 

naveenstuns

Reservist
Nah, the defense is not broken anymore. With the introduction of Sousa / Leaven, the FFs were the most balanced in years. +17 sector attack is simply too much. Even on newer worlds tanks in defense, with good reskill, maxed out fort etc. can hold for like what? 1 to 3 rounds? Some of them started to respec to dmg because, simply, it´s not enjoyable.
you do realize because of this set tanks can also do decent damage right? so just tank 1-2 rounds and then play as a damager when low HP.

If you think this +17 attack is causing issues then you are delusional there's too much randomness in the game the odds don't improve much. without the bonus if its 50% chance to hit it would be 56% with the bonus.
 

Bomba Voyager

Reservist
you do realize because of this set tanks can also do decent damage right? so just tank 1-2 rounds and then play as a damager when low HP.

If you think this +17 attack is causing issues then you are delusional there's too much randomness in the game the odds don't improve much. without the bonus if its 50% chance to hit it would be 56% with the bonus.
You cannot say "you guys are delusional" by simply saying "there are too much factors bla bla bla" with elementary mathematics. Please go back and re-read what I wrote about the probability of the random event. So sorry but what you are saying is totally wrong.

@Loki what is your opinion on this matter? Is it possible for you guys to at least "discuss" how it affected the fort fights?
 

Emma Swan

Lance Corporal
So, you need 100 players to agree on something before it can be changed? Well, sometimes you need 2 people to make the point, 98 can go drink beer or something, play bowling whatever...

Come on, even a girl with 1/4 of brain can see what this set is about. Free ride set that is the best ever made for FF dmg? We got Sousa from event that is weak against Blach hCat? That Astors nugget ride is worse than black hCat? Its a huge jumb with free sets compared to event sets. Meaning somebody is too drunk there or next year we are going to get massivly strong sets? Otherwise I dont get it.

Speaking about probability, well, if +17 attack wont help you, which increaces your chance to hit, then lets just go fight naked and be cool .... we know its about random rng, but every higher number has higher chance to be chosen. I can miss with 278 10 rounds, but I can also destroy you with 279,5.....

Make attack personal bonus not for sector. Clothes are weak for soem reason, you cant have bonus 500 dmg, +95 attack, 5689 leadership 11000 setting traps and 9000 hiding in 1 set. Sets are usually mixed. For example Black heart ride, Sousa clothes, Captain guns.

Every dueler is better Fort player with bonus attack, not bonus dmg. Of course its good balanced to have a bit from both, bud you need to hit first. Remember how it was with murrieta? Then came Ron and hit almost every round... Dmg per hit was smaller, but in the end overal dmg was one of the highest. why? Well, ride +5 attack, clothes +12/or 14, guns +5 attack... +22 attack for a player. Now you are trying to convince me, that +17 and arond +200 dmg for sector is piece of cake?
 

Emma Swan

Lance Corporal
Also, why is Kodiak set stilll not with resistance and skills per level? You are loosing chance to dodge and that resistance isnt helping anymore. Tanks are getting hit with kodiak 1500+. Many things are so so so wrong. Yet we are releasing sets and sets without thinking I would say.
 

Mullet

Reservist
Only thing more, that we could do, is to provide exact raw data from West Forts. Personally I went down by around 50-55% with dodges and by 35-40% with hits taken. So Voyager correctly stated, that the number of crits rose sharply. Lastly, I am not even talking about decreased XP earned by FF (10-12k per fight on average went down to 5-7k). Basically it´s more beneficial to respec and be a dmg and earn at least suitable rewards.
 

Artem124

Sergeant
Nah, the defense is not broken anymore. With the introduction of Sousa / Leaven, the FFs were the most balanced in years.
sousa? i use the riding and i legit see no diff. i use full union with sousa riding and i still miss like i did before .
so i see no improvement from sousa regardless.
 

Deleted User - 115745

Guest
you cry for free set atack bonus but you dont say anything when builder come at fort with 400+ atack base LOL , when the rest barely hit 250 atack we leave in a crazy world this days
 
Top