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Worker is the worst class - CHANGE MY MIND!

Test acc said:
It seems you guys didnt had read everything... Read carefully.
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That's the neat part, I don't need to.
Both classes pve bonuses are negligible in practice, so the only bonus that really matters is FF bonus if you want to talk about class performance. Since Worker's bonus makes them perform better than Aventurer (proven many times already, even in the FF you yourself linked), then Worker>Aventurer.
Also they participating less in FF only goes to show what I said earlier, they prefer to play Church Building Idle Simulator, log in to queue more hours of Church Building and log out, you can check in every world for each server by yourself if you don't believe me.
 
Shirohime said:
they prefer to play Church Building Idle Simulator, log in to queue more hours of Church Building and log out, you can check in every world for each server by yourself if you don't believe me.
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so, using the % of players that exist for these 2 classes which if we do the math

Test acc said:
31.1% duellers
29.0% adventurers
25.5% soldiers
14.3% workers
Click to expand...

and the battle in the example that had 18 workers and 29 adventurers out of the 138 players, and we check the amount of players that are on the 2 major ally.

18 workers (13% out of 138 players)
29 adventurer (21% out of 138 players)

1776724809227.png 1776724823518.png
(and also assuming that the vast majority of adventurers that are multi are townless)

those 2 allies have in total, have 1063 players has 118 worker (11%) and 319 adventurers (30%)

SO YOU ARE SAYING, that from 118 workers if 13%x2 are in a fort fight, 22 would be in battle, and the others 96 would be all churching?
wonder where the other 250 adventurers are :o
 
@Test acc is correct, and the numbers back it up. If you look at battle rosters, Adventurers consistently outnumber Workers...


Adventurer class gets unfairly dismissed as a "meat shield," but that completely misunderstands its role. An Adventurer isn't supposed to tank in front of the group, it's built to hold sectors and towers independently, for extended rounds. That's a unique and highly valuable function that no other class can perform as efficiently. The problem is that the reward structure doesn't reflect that contribution. Holding a tower alone for 10 rounds but getting such little battle ranking experience is just sad.

My suggestion: keep the ghosting mechanic as it is, it's what defines the class, but increase the ranking exp awarded for ghosting so that Adventurers are actually compensated for the effort. The FF bonus could also be tweaked slightly, but the identity of the class should stay intact.

Worker is honestly a balanced class, but "balanced" doesn't mean "optimal", and that's the issue. The class lacks a clear role that makes battle commanders want to prioritize it. For Workers who are high leveled should better just play with upgraded weapons and solid damage FF sets, dealing 60k+ damage per battle, and if you are a stacked Worker you can push into dueler territory at 90k+.

The question is whether the FF bonus justifies bringing a Worker over a Soldier, who delivers better overall battle value with less dependency on gear quality. Either the FF bonus needs a meaningful increase (as @Test acc suggested), or the class needs a secondary mechanic that gives it a distinct battlefield niche, something that makes a squad actively want a Worker in the lineup. A good example would be ( Having a worker in a sector increases aim and dodge by 20% for everyone, similar to Soldier that can share leadership, same could be applied to Worker sharing his Aim and Dodge chance )
 
Soldiers have 2 things: double hp which is OP for tanking and dueling and tactics which isnt really meta due to resistance but its useful for dueling too
Duelers have 2 things: crits which is OP for damage and dueling from afar which doesnt make you stronger but it allows for "surprise attack"
Workers have 1 thing: the aim/dodge bonus, 40% bonus doesnt allow for them to be serious contenders for top damager or top tank (dodges + hits taken) of the battle but whereas the dueler and the soldier are very RNG dependent, they can do a great battle and next battle horrible stats, workers arent so RNG dependent, they have consistent stats, and their average is only slightly lower than a soldier/dueler from the same level.
Now the hard part. Adventurers. Adventurers have 1 thing: Ghosting. But that is so situational! A soldier will have double the hp in EVERY battle. No matter what. In a battle 10 vs 10 (those happen in some worlds) an adventurer will have 0 utility. He gets shot by the 5 damagers and ghosts the 5 tanks. If its just to ghost 5 tanks you better have a soldier tank blocking. For ghosting to be useful it needs to be in a battle against a lot of enemies, your side needs to be in a position where it needs to block a sector with a lot of LOS on it (usually towers, flag or North sectors). And even in a 132 vs 138 (colo caps) you want like ~10 adventurers (unless you are planning to use the turtle strategy), not 25% (34) adventurers. As said by an adventurer here:
Shelps said:
i play HP adventurer and since there arent much players and battles arent full and blocking sectors isnt a thing anymore, adventurers bonus is actually more like disadvantage than bonus - i cant event tank well, cos people wont shoot at me.. :D i have to buy premium without VIP - without character-bonus, so the chance that people will shoot at me is at least 75% and not 50 % :D
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Ghosting plays against them at some point. Like they take first few shots and then they ghost, problem is first few shots are from the best damagers, they cant even farm the easy dodges or low dmg hits of other tanks cause they are already a ghost by then. Another thing that can be used is to "pile" a lot of adventurers on point with the idea that when 1st adventurer ghosts the adventurer behind keeps tanking but with soldier/worker not only you have better individual stats you dont have to resort to such "crazy tactics".

All of the other class bonuses are nearly irrelevant due to modern sets.

If I had an infinite amount of players from each class signed up to a battle and had to make a team of 138 I would take 60 soldiers 60 duelers 9 workers 9 adventurers (and this is me doing max effort to take the 4 classes, some IFBC battles didnt have the 4 classes)

Considering all of this the class that suffers the most is adventurer.
 
BigNoob said:
Considering all of this the class that suffers the most is adventurer.
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remmeber that my point of the thread is the whole class, not only in fort fights, the exp and church bonuses are useless, and the fee, other classes can avoid it too, im using the fort fights as a comparative to show that by being the least chosen class, that something is wrong with it.
 
As an example, let's say there are 100 adventurers on a game world. 70 of them are support accounts (clones), 25 are secondary accounts belonging to players whose main character is on another game world and who play there only to farm items and transfer them between worlds, and the remaining 5 are mains on that world who genuinely regret being noobs and choosing the adventurer when they start playing.
 
luvBB said:
As an example, let's say there are 100 adventurers on a game world. 70 of them are support accounts (clones), 25 are secondary accounts belonging to players whose main character is on another game world and who play there only to farm items and transfer them between worlds, and the remaining 5 are mains on that world who genuinely regret being noobs and choosing the adventurer when they start playing.
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the numbers are already ignoring the suport and secondary acounts cuz they dont do ff
 
Test acc said:
the numbers are already ignoring the suport and secondary acounts cuz they dont do ff
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They actually do FF, that's what you dont understand, that's why i say and you can also see that the number in ff and the one from the ally is similar in % because a lot of them just join a ff without being active or have decently upgraded gear. They are either in old tank gear or basic unupgraded damage gear and do almost nothing to the battle while workers despite being a very lower number they will most likely have very good gear and can be only marginally worse than a soldier or a dueller.
 
WesternCalin said:
They actually do FF, that's what you dont understand, that's why i say and you can also see that the number in ff and the one from the ally is similar in % because a lot of them just join a ff without being active or have decently upgraded gear.
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You can't arguee with him when he gets like this, he really beliefs multis are excluded from statistics.
 
Shirohime said:
You can't arguee with him when he gets like this, he really beliefs multis are excluded from statistics.
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Shirohime said:
That further proves my point lol
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these adventurers being or not mult, doesnt means worker arent as ignorable as adventurer, and if not consider the ff skill, whats left to worker, basically nothing... all other skills are worthless, and the only one that should matter is being replaced by a lot due to dueler and soldier, most because of soldiers... and the math, the formula, the graveyard, the graphics, the spreadsheet, shows that currently, workers are worthless to play with, not only in fort fights but for everything, i know adventurers still not a good class, but at least they have the drop and luck bonus, which in practice means that they get 20% more money from drops at jobs.
 
WesternCalin said:
They actually do FF, that's what you dont understand, that's why i say and you can also see that the number in ff and the one from the ally is similar in % because a lot of them just join a ff without being active or have decently upgraded gear. They are either in old tank gear or basic unupgraded damage gear and do almost nothing to the battle while workers despite being a very lower number they will most likely have very good gear and can be only marginally worse than a soldier or a dueller.
Click to expand...
Each round, every player has an ‘attack’ and ‘defend’ bonus calculated for them. The greater the attack value, the more likely one is to hit their target and similarly the greater the defend value, the less likely one is to be hit themselves. (In other words, these values do not correspond to the attacking and defending sides.) When calculating whether a hit is landed successfully, the number used is randomly taken between zero (inclusive) and the corresponding value (exclusive). The higher of the randomised attack and defend values wins.

do yourself the comparison, then show to us the result, plz still want someone to change my mind!
 
The moment you allow multis to temper your statitics, your whole point becomes irrelevant; and it's even more funny when you out of all people, are defending the use of multis stats for your own agenda.
Aventurers has been proven to be worse than Worker, you said it yourself even, so I won't bother with someone that will do anything, even allow multis, to defend their argument :njub:
 
How many would switch to the Worker character? If the cost of the Potion of New Beginnings were reduced from 1000 Bons/Nuggets to 200 Bons/Nuggets? A lot, I say! That way, you can always reskill for everything and not always use the same skill!

For the city of Grünten, focus on Strength and Construction.

And for Fort-Combat, use Yellow Charisma and Leadership, or Blue-Green and Red!

Because the Worker is actually an all-rounder.
 
:njub:
Shirohime said:
The moment you allow multis to temper your statitics, your whole point becomes irrelevant; and it's even more funny when you out of all people, are defending the use of multis stats for your own agenda.
Aventurers has been proven to be worse than Worker, you said it yourself even, so I won't bother with someone that will do anything, even allow multis, to defend their argument :njub::njub:
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if i could remove 100% of multies would already done it, but i cant ofc, besides that, worker is the least played class... :njub:

1776772455457.png battle going RN in colo :njub:

:njub:
 
each class has something useful and something really not useful:

  1. adventurer
    • not useful:
      • item-finding-luck % (destroyed by sets with hundreds of %% luck)
      • hotel bonus (i hope that doesnt need any explanation)
      • work danger (that could be useful while ton of 15s clicking if it was 10% (vip-20%) bonus from final value (so danger 22% from some work would be only 12 % (vip-2%) but it isnt :/ )
      • ghosting - as i said in other discussion:
        Shelps said:
        i play HP adventurer and since there arent much players and battles arent full and blocking sectors isnt a thing anymore, adventurers bonus is actually more like disadvantage than bonus - i cant event tank well, cos people wont shoot at me.. :D i have to buy premium without VIP - without character-bonus, so the chance that people will shoot at me is at least 75% and not 50 % :D
        Click to expand...
        most of the times it isnt useful
    • useful
      • product-finding % (with current sets this bonus is very small, but still useful with vip on 15 sec clicking. but could be much much better these days)
      • (ghosting - the idea is (was) fine xxx years ago. problem for this is number of players and blocking/ghosting isnt needed and usually you dont want the ghosting to be active.. but still, maybe in 10 % of scenarios, you could use a block sometimes. but.... as was said, very baaaad)
  2. dueller
    • not useful
      • speed (currents sets give muuuuuuuch more speed)
      • motivation (they are players who want duel motivations low at 0% or at max % using buffs and nothing between - the speed of growing back duel motivation isnt relevant anymore)
      • clothing-skill perception - half good, but when I see somebody doing duels, he usually uses some script that makes the same thing and better
    • useful
      • 15 min (vip-30 min) - range duel (extremely good)
      • 10 % (vip 20%) chance for critical hit
  3. worker
    • not useful
      • 5 % (vip 10%) of working bonus (trash)
      • building motivation (similar to duel motivation - with buffs, it is not relevant)
    • useful
      • 5 % (vip 10 %) XP (for people doing 15s also in high levels and many hours per day, is it biiiig bonus)
      • 20 % (vip 40%) hit/dodge bonus (i never found out if it is meant at hit/dodge as final stat in ff or just aim/dodge as 2 simple skills. either way, the bonus is extremely big. i mena exreeeeemaly - in CZ, where I play, ale worker-tanks much better and more used then soldier-tank, cos the worker dodging bonus really matters a lot. and when the server is new, this skill is totally OP and workers are Gods..)
      • 2 % (vip - no cash) fees - other classes lose lots of milions with this. worker doesnt. tell me this doesnt matter?
  4. Soldier
    • not useful
      • guns level
    • useful
      • hp (doesnt need comment)
      • duel tactic (very good when you can use it)
      • leadership bonus (not many people can use it, but it matters a lot when you know how to position)

1) For me personaly, worker is actually top tier class when I look at it from general sight - ff/xp/cash - what do you want more? :)
2) Behind worker, is for me personally tie of dueller and soldier - both very very good and basically they are both opossite of each other
(3) Greenhord - is better tank then adventurer :))) )
4) adventurer - really needs reword ASAP
 
correcting: @Shelps
  1. worker
    • not useful
      • 5 % (vip 10%) of construction bonus (trash)
      • building motivation (similar to duel motivation - with buffs, it is not relevant)
      • 2 % (vip - no cash) fees - it doesnt matter for many reasons, 10 nuggets, dont take money from market, dont having town, if your town has no money on treasury will need to deposit manualy, and 4% is not that relevant, the money will still be used anyways to build church and attack forts (should have more use to that money)
    • should be more useful
      • 20 % (vip 40%) hit/dodge bonus - its only 40% more dodges, its usefull, however not as usefull as 100% hp, the math, the spreadsheet, the formula, the numbers of players, the ratio of chosen class, the graveyard says the same... its not suficient, and if dont consider crit, soldier without premium has more eficiency as tanking (hits+dodge) which is 50% more skill.
      • 5 % (vip 10 %) XP - its nothing, literally, 3 more exp in a 15s job, if you have read all i wrote would see how useless that bonus is, i doubt that even had make diference of a single level to any work, like i said previously, its 10% flat, not real 10% as it SHOULD BE.
 
i dont know. i mean, not on my servers (CZ - new P. and older L.). workers simply last longer and tank better here, didnt calculate more, and also I wont, until adventurer gets reworker :D thats my priority now. after that, i will calculate anything about worker gladly..

also, you have to take one argument - you are telling me that according to your calculations etc etc and xour experience (but not mine) ale worker very useful in tanking, but not as useful as soldier - even this make sense, cos as worker you dont need to tank :) you can also go full yellow and be excelent sniper and now you dont battle with soldier but with dueller - you can be almost as good as two other classes.

but is I said, im done here - i want to help pushing for Adventurer rework on Beta forum, then we can balance other (if needed..)
 
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