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Update 2.127 discussion

RaiderTr

Master Sergeant
you decided to have a somewhat "percentage" based Damage formula
Say what?

They just didn't write the ( Weapon Damage + Sector Damage ) part, which multiplies the whole thing, similar to old formula. Good ol' math.
Or am I missing something?

I wish Damage and Resistance bonuses from gears would be percentage based but I don't think it's happening..
 

Kasza1987

Reservist
I calculate and speak today 20k hp and 800-1100 dmg and he is not best of tank player.
All soldeir give life, leadership bonus, and dualer, and andventure trust in 10-20% and 25%-50%. Nice new word,
I know what is would like, but this plan is not good.
 

mxj1

Private
And just one more thing...I think the Sector Damage is also TOO overpowered...maybe droping it from the ( Weapon Damage + Sector Damage ) so it does not get the "multiplier" porcion, and simply adding in the end.
Why do you want to change that? Sector bonus was always multiplied by your dmg multiplier(old LS/hp, now the whole new formula) and having 1-3 people wearing distinguished the weaker from the better teams. 250-300 bonus amplified could grant you 500-600 additional damage for full LS builds
 

RaiderTr

Master Sergeant
Sector bonus was always multiplied by your dmg multiplier
One of the main reasons why we had this big damage issues.
Something Percentage bonuses wouldn't cause.

But either way, whoever making these sets neglected the part where those bonuses are doubled and gave damage bonus to everyone in the sector, including the Damagers with other sets giving No Dmg bonus but ATK bonus instead, with even more Leadership (like Phoebe Mosey) which ends up doing even more Damage.

It's even worse with sets like Union Officer. Instant %30-40 Damage bonus (up to 1.4k dmg) only from Sector Damage without owning the set yourself. And I'm not even exeggerating. All proven by experience.


While at it.. Lets compare Zapata with Murrieta.. the sets that came together.
Clothing sets: 100 resist vs 60 Dmg bonus. Ending up about 100 v 120. More or less.
Mount and Weapon sets: 50 resist vs 45 Dmg bonus. 50 v 90.. So 100 v 180. More or less.

In total, 200 Resist v 300 Damage.. Ends up doing 100-150 more Damage per hit + Hit advantage over Dodge. Since Tanks has to put SP into Hp and that Default Attack value is higher than Defense.

And Zapata gives absolute 0 Hp..


So you see, we don't even need Formulas favoring damagers. Sets already do that for us.
 
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Lordofgods

Private
Say what?
With this new formula you multiply : ( Weapon Damage + Sector Damage ) x Multiplier (which is >=1), So one could say that you increase the ( Weapon Damage + Sector Damage ) by 20% / 30% / whatever, therefore being somewhat percentage*
As raider answered...yes amplifying the bonus sector is certainly one of the reasons that should be accounted for.
 

bidliz

Private
Great, finally I can kill my server with my worker, who have 17k health, livingston/gringo/summer spirits sets, because i'll get +200 dmg and i'll loose 5 resistance (right now i have 440 resis). Cool, at least alone i can defeat a tower with 9 enemies, and no one will kill me. I like that :)
 

RaiderTr

Master Sergeant
I feel like this will be our only chance in the next few years (assuming game survives) to get some changes to Fort related things, considering how small the Dev team is and how limited time they have, so might as well push the limits and go as far as possible...

just, dewitt

> Anything to make them more appealing.. and "modern" , if you will.
3D stuff.. Reworking Fort battle map pre-battle overview , adding an interactive "How to play" part
Might as well use some script features.. Symbols.. Topic thing.. Better (and maybe transparent) tooltips for pre- and during battle.

Screenshot_3.png

I mean we are using HTML5 for a while now (praise Diggo).. Might as well get some goodies from/via it.

> Improving Alliance things related to Forts.
Might as well as add "Yearly" , "Monthly" infos. Since some servers are almost decade old and that Westforts only counts Damages.

Screenshot_2.png

> Updating some LoS stuff.. Non-existent Gate's LoS, Height relation and all that.
Also the "Flag Rush" concept that will very likely to be affected with all these changes.

> Giving Towers Resist/Damage bonus when used by Defenders, or when used towards outside (if that's possible)

> Making Buildings viable/unique via various/different bonuses.
Same for Walls.

> Some other ideas:

Btw,
#make-Shiny-Golden-set-great-again
Throw in some Resist will ya :p Or.. make us an up-to-date Hombre weapon set..
 
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sand of time

Private
Elite Tester
This new formula is kinda bad. It raises the HP with the cost of losing like 100-150 dmg. I did some calculation and with my lvl 150 dueller (210 ap 611 sp) with full dex and full hp, i have aprox 7700 hp and an average successful hit of 868 dmg (with phoebe clothes and murrieta weapons and horse and saddle set; and assuming i am alone in a sector). This isn't normal :)
 

Harsha.1

Private First Class
So far from the initial battles, these are the observations -

1. HP Penalty has really been eliminated, we saw 20k soldiers managing to do 1k average shot damage, something that would not be possible under the old order of things.

2. It's clear that union sets' impact has not changed under this new scheme. One 5.5k advent with L2 union rifle was able to deal 1.6k damage per shot. This is mostly due to the fact that union sets provide a massive amount of skill points all around which leads to a higher damage multiplier. It's easy to see how OP workers would become - a 10k tank worker with the right FF gun would be capable of dealing massive amounts of dueler-like damage, while dodging the most shots.

3. Most players have not reskilled towards the new "optimal" combination - that is, 1:1:1 for skills and mostly stuck by their old builds, yet overall damage rose by a very significant amount. To do proper testing, there will be a need to keep daily awesomia battles (with adequate rewards) and encourage all players to reskill so that the formula can be tested under more accurate conditions. But, it's certain that we would have <20 round battles in this situation.

4. The changes to resistance formula are mostly negligible - no real change/increases in resistance. Players with pure resistance builds will see a drop in their overall resistance.

From my understanding, this change is just the first step - reducing the HP penalty is not completely a bad thing, as it will encourage players to move away from low HP builds which mostly have proliferated too much. Massive increases in resistance, to match up with the overall rise in damage would make sense, along with changes in attack/defense formula, to give greater primacy to defense would help as well. But, at the end of the day, if damage itself cannot be nerfed, we will need some sort of change to buff tanks and help them survive longer - generally, longer the battles last, the more interesting they are.
 

Kasza1987

Reservist
I have one idea, (I dont calculate) health skill points give only heath 7 (old 10) life but every level add 15hp (now)
More hp little and no life character, and full tank little lesz life,
And need change new forumle no good or delete area damage, because will be little unfer, soldier will give extra life, leadership bonus, tactica bonus, area damage, now more damage, and dualer and adventure nothing,
 

ancoonbar

Private
I have one idea, (I dont calculate) health skill points give only heath 7 (old 10) life but every level add 15hp (now)
lvl 150 with no investment in HP would then be 2.335 HP instead of 1.590, while a lvl 150 non-soldier with 1000 skills in health total would lose 2.255 health & a premium soldier would lose 5.255. So that would hurt people with health more than that it would negate the damage of non-HP people.
 

asdf124

Private First Class
So far from the initial battles, these are the observations -

1. HP Penalty has really been eliminated, we saw 20k soldiers managing to do 1k average shot damage, something that would not be possible under the old order of things.

2. It's clear that union sets' impact has not changed under this new scheme. One 5.5k advent with L2 union rifle was able to deal 1.6k damage per shot. This is mostly due to the fact that union sets provide a massive amount of skill points all around which leads to a higher damage multiplier. It's easy to see how OP workers would become - a 10k tank worker with the right FF gun would be capable of dealing massive amounts of dueler-like damage, while dodging the most shots.

3. Most players have not reskilled towards the new "optimal" combination - that is, 1:1:1 for skills and mostly stuck by their old builds, yet overall damage rose by a very significant amount. To do proper testing, there will be a need to keep daily awesomia battles (with adequate rewards) and encourage all players to reskill so that the formula can be tested under more accurate conditions. But, it's certain that we would have <20 round battles in this situation.

4. The changes to resistance formula are mostly negligible - no real change/increases in resistance. Players with pure resistance builds will see a drop in their overall resistance.

From my understanding, this change is just the first step - reducing the HP penalty is not completely a bad thing, as it will encourage players to move away from low HP builds which mostly have proliferated too much. Massive increases in resistance, to match up with the overall rise in damage would make sense, along with changes in attack/defense formula, to give greater primacy to defense would help as well. But, at the end of the day, if damage itself cannot be nerfed, we will need some sort of change to buff tanks and help them survive longer - generally, longer the battles last, the more interesting they are.
I think 2020 would be a semi bad year for the dueler class, workers seems to be the most likely to be the most op fort fight class now.
 

RaiderTr

Master Sergeant
Duelers will be fine, they always were..
More Hp for them to crit, if anything.

I can't wait for the next changes thou.
I hope we won't have to wait 2 weeks for each change.
 

Zulus

Private
another Awesomia test battle behind us. Another great test crowd on beta attended the battle. I suppose if everyone is feeling as spoiled as me getting 15 bonds for getting murdered by the current increased damage by everyone, then such low numbers of testers are to be expected.

What worries me more though is another thing. For the past few years most fort fighters have been crying over damage ruling the fights, impossibilty of blocking anything, people reskilling to dmg builds - ever increasing and building anger towards OP dmg sets and dmg in general and we start a very important process of trying to sort this out by giving everyone even more ammunition.

Yes, I understand everything that has been said before, that this is important so we will know how much resistance will need to be buffed to improve the balancing issue, but right now what is happening is even more discouraging and demotivating then whats happening on open worlds. People get more angry with every testing battle. How are we supposed to test anything if people are exposed to the same slaughter but magnfied ? And all this for 15 bonds to just get more pissed off then we normally do?

Having had the damage problem for so long would it not have been more logical to maybe start testing the work in progress new formula from working on resistance first and only after some tests start working on the damage (if it would need nerfing or buffing) depending what data the buffed resistance data provided? At least then it would feel like we are actually going in the proper direction instead of exposing everyone to more dmg dominance but only worse.
 

RaiderTr

Master Sergeant
I don't think further testing is needed with the current-new formulas either.
They need a change as soon as possible. Probably a multiplier to the Resistance one, penalised with Hp similar to the Damage formula.

Also please add a Distance penalty to Damage.. Say, starting from 5 tiles up to %35-40 reduction at.. 25 tiles? Or something.
It's always irritating to see full Damage (especially 4k Critics) from the far end of the World.
Hit chance penalty don't seem to have any effect anymore anyhow.
 
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Lordofgods

Private
So... after well enough a week of "Testing"

1. Any comments from the develop team?

2. Are you planing on making a few changes in every Update?

3. When would you say is your deadline for a definite Damage/Resistance formula? Is it in the next Tombola? I think it really might be...since there will be more fortfight sets, makes sense that it should be great for these new formulas.

4. Do you plan on envolving the community a bit more in the discussion? I know you probably read every comment on this thread...but a little response now and then would really make the point that this can be a conversation.

5. Any reconsideration? More Goals? I think updating forts in general (be it the UI or the formulas/Tower/penalties/etc) is what we need maybe consider that more a bit.

6. Any ideas that you liked from these type of threads? Again, we would really apreciate more dialogue...and more open conversations.
 
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