Situation of the Game

[RaiderTr]

200 dodges? Where? On .NET? With how many Damagers? With or without Unioners?!

I didn't say it's been worse than before. I'm simply saying "IT'S NOT ENOUGH"
And.. Surviving 4 rounds is too much? So you don't feel useless after 2 rounds? Just.. lol.

I don't wanna list all the issues FFs and rewarding system have..
Have tons of posts regarding those.

 

[SisterAbigail]

So if you would survive 4 rounds, then what would happen if there were 10 of you? Holding the tower for 40 rounds, that would be fair? I sent you a PM regarding the whereabouts of my presence though. HU 13, but you can find the same stats on HU1 and HU14, and there are tons of Union sets ^^

 

[RaiderTr]

Yea like I guessed.. National servers..
That being said.. https://www.westforts.com/hu13/battles doesn't really show me any 150 dodges let alone "average"

Tons of Damagers?! 30 out of 150 is tons?!
Dude go try .Net with 80-90 out of 180 (about Half). Then you will see where I'm coming from.

 

[SisterAbigail]

You are avoiding my point again. Look at the battles during the event, then you will be able to find that amount of dodges frequently. And whatever server I look into on .net, the best ratio was 1/4 of players being damagers.

 

[RaiderTr]

So if you would survive 4 rounds, then what would happen if there were 10 of you?

I get what you are saying and I know what you mean.

What you are missing is though, point doesn't take whole shoots of the opposite side. If it is, then Battle leader/person in point doing something horribly wrong with LoS control.
At least 2 to 4 people should share the shoots. And 2-3 rounds is me considering that. Otherwise none can survive 2 rounds (or 1 even, at times) eating 90 something shoots per round.

Look at the battles during the event, then you will be able to find that amount of dodges frequently. And whatever server I look into on .net, the best ratio was 1/4 of players being damagers.

I checked Battles before the changes too.
I don't see any visible/considerable chang afterwards.

1/4 are Damagers?! LOL

If you think National servers are on same state with .Net, sorry but you are imagining things I'm afraid..
Or you have no clue at all..

Oh and, what of poor Worker Tanks? Adventurer Tanks/Blockers?!

 

[RaiderTr]

Well, it's been a month since my last "evaluation" of the State of the game and now we have seen DotD.
It's "improved" but not so much, like I've guessed.

Sadly the Sets won't be in xmas bags (again) nor they will be possible to get via Bonds in any possible way. (Like, getting a "Free Card" with them, or buy a chest of them)
That is, until a whole year later when they will most likely be irrelevant.

And of course it has a decent Tank set (although it has no Hiding) while Damagers had theirs on best/easiest event called Oktober(September)Fest.
Not Fair. Therefore, sadly, It's not likely that we will see a real change to Attacker/Damager superiority.


While that's going on.. I think they are finished, or very close to be, updating all generic Item-sets of the game. So here's hoping they will move on to other updating projects.

I mean.. They did update Travelling Fair buffs but.. They are irrelevant/unnecessary in the age of Tombola sets.
I wish we could exchange them via Angus though.

Now if only they updated the Craft buffs that are relevant to Fort Fights.
Still hoping for an Amulet update for example, like Percentage based Hp bonus. And/Or some buff with Resistance accompanying a Defensive skill.


Oh btw, we of course have another batch of "new" servers across all non-Beta "markets" ... without any migration/merge ..

And, I do wonder what are they gonna do with the Player-made Guide videos
I mean.. Getting new players is one thing.. Keeping them around is another.. Quite hard without a decent Tutorial/Start-up and a Mobile-App in this era.

 

[RaiderTr]

^ Update to above

I've seen a lot of upgraded Cortina users (with Nugget Bear and Mask) in several (defense) Battles now.
And.. unlike theoretical thoughts of some people.. practically it doesn't change much compared to (hollow Hp) Livingston Clothing set + Nugget Bear.
Amounts of survived Hits and Dodges wise that is. Basically because Damager Hit ratios and Damages/Critical hits are too high to be affected by 'em**

It'd be better if Captain set wasn't OP and much easier to get/upgrade though.
Or, if InnoGames continued with FF balancing while encouraging being a Tank (via Rewards etc) instead of the opposite. I mean.. having a half or 1/3 team of Damagers/Duelers don't really help now does it?


**Of course there is an issue of Tanks/New players not dealing any Damage to the users of Nugget Bear & Cortina..
That's one of the important issues putting off newbies and Tanks, which, new Formulas were about to fix, but got cancelled..

 

[*Colonel*]

^ Update to above

I've seen a lot of upgraded Cortina users (with Nugget Bear and Mask) in several (defense) Battles now.
And.. unlike theoretical thoughts of some people.. practically it doesn't change much compared to (hollow Hp) Livingston Clothing set + Nugget Bear.
Amounts of survived Hits and Dodges wise that is. Basically because Damager Hit ratios and Damages/Critical hits are too high to be affected by 'em**

It'd be better if Captain set wasn't OP and much easier to get/upgrade though.
Or, if InnoGames continued with FF balancing while encouraging being a Tank (via Rewards etc) instead of the opposite. I mean.. having a half or 1/3 team of Damagers/Duelers don't really help now does it?


**Of course there is an issue of Tanks/New players not dealing any Damage to the users of Nugget Bear & Cortina..
That's one of the important issues putting off newbies and Tanks, which, new Formulas were about to fix, but got cancelled..

I got completely different situation. Tanks with cortina are now very powerful. We even tested advent on class tower with soldier nearby. The advent with Cortina gets at least 80 dodges. Advent blocking north sector stayed there 5 rounds at least against full enemy sector shooting.

Same tested on soldiers. Surely crits are now 4k, but overall much more dodges. Tank soldier on tower corner now stays for at least 5 rounds compared to 3 rounds livingston.

Very interesting to see worker with a complete Cortina (unfortunately our tank workers are not very donating guys ). Anyway, the set increases chances for defense alot.

 

[RaiderTr]

In which server though?
I take Colorado (of .Net) as reference since it is the only server with decent number of active FF'ers at any time to fill/or get very close to fill a Medium fort (or even Big at times)

The real absurdity is though, we can't even catch up to Nugget-Free damagers with our Nugget Tank sets.

That's how ignorant Set designer is.

 

[*Colonel*]

In which server though?
I take Colorado (of .Net) as reference since it is the only server with decent number of active FF'ers at any time to fill/or get very close to fill a Medium fort (or even Big at times)

The real absurdity is though, we can't even catch up to Nugget-Free damagers with our Nugget Tank sets.

Montana at .ru (RU-18)

 

[RaiderTr]

So a national server, like I guessed. And relatively new.
You seem to have good enough numbers for Medium forts though so that's something.

By looking at https://www.westforts.com/ru18/battles I don't see any extraordinary number of Dodges/Survived shots.

For a Russian server you don't have high total Hp but I don't see as many "real" Damagers as we do. (Not even close to 1/3 of both Teams)
Of course idk how many are Captain/Union Officer users either.

 

[*Colonel*]

So a national server, like I guessed.
But you seem to have good enough numbers for Medium forts so that's something.

By looking at https://www.westforts.com/ru18/battles I don't see any extraordinary number of Dodges/Survived shots.

For a Russian server you don't have high total Hp but I don't see as many "real" Damagers as we do. (Not even close to 1/3 of both Teams)
Of course idk how many are Captain/Union Officer users either.

I compare current battles with those that were in period after Captain's sales availeable and before DotD.

For 70 players attacking there are 15+ damage dealers in captain. But no more than 20

 

[RaiderTr]

Yea that makes sense.
If majority of shooters are Tanks it's quite good, since Tanks don't get to have absurd Attack (Hit chance) and Damage values of Damagers.

In .Net however.. Lowest number of Duelers are 1/3 of each team.
Then you have other classes with Damage skills and/or gear.

I honestly don't know if they are releasing the sets based on National servers or not.
But in any case Sets ain't the only problem.

Damage formula is just too cheesy and quite rewarding.

 

[*Colonel*]

Yea that makes sense.
If majority of shooters are Tanks it's quite good, since Tanks don't get to have absurd Attack (Hit chance) and Damage values of Damagers.

In .Net however.. Lowest number of Duelers are 1/3 of each team.
Then you have other classes with Damage skills and/or gear.

I honestly don't know if they are releasing the sets based on National servers or not.
But in any case Sets ain't the only problem.

Damage formula is just too cheesy and quite rewarding.

Well i guess the formula should be left as it it, while rewards for fort battle to be revised.

First of all, higher experience pool. Secondly, muuuuuch higher impact of dodges/taken hits on experience, bonds gain and fort RATING. Because plenty of people play "damage dealers" just in order to be high on in-game ranking and westforts.
Also maybe adding some bonuses for high HP players, for example in adventures., or anywhere else. Just in order to make tanks more playable not only as fort fighter, but in other aspects of game.

 

[RaiderTr]

Well i guess the formula should be left as it is

Sadly that formula can no longer handle the ever-growing Power-creep (there is no Diminishing return) and it penalises the Tanks way too much.

We had a "all-in-one" topic in .Net forum, which I also shared in the first post of this thread:

https://forum.the-west.net/index.php?threads/use-the-ifbc-branch-to-test-pvp-balancing.58712

 

[wlan-kabel]

on German servers, balancing has definetly improved with changed fort sizes and the new Cortina set.
I think we are on the right track. There will probably be a defensive damage set aswell as a offensive tank set next year, so we will see if this will have more impact.

The formula that was tested on IFBC server introduced a lot of different problems, it was completely counter-intuitive to increase damage by skilling some HP.

I think the biggest issue right now that has to be adressed is the adventurer class. Worker and soldier have benefited from the new distance penalty and buffed towers, but adventurers were left behind. The character bonus needs to be changed as the high damage that duelists put out can melt even tanky adventurers pretty quickly. The ghosting is also way too much dependent on RNG and therefore not reliable at all.

Another thing that I´ve noticed is that a tank with Cortina set + summer spirit has so much resistance, that other tanks will automatically miss or only deal like 5 damage, while the resistance does not really matter when a leadership duellist is shooting at you.
Maybe it would be better if the resistance is percentage based instead of flat, so it will be more effective against leadership skillers and less frustrating for the opposing tanks.

 

[RaiderTr]

other tanks will automatically miss or only deal like 5 damage

Yup, mentioned it above, and mentioned it about half a year ago too.
Always been an issue but now it's more clear.

Poor newbies too btw.

while the resistance does not matter when a leadership dueler/damager is shooting at you.

Sadly.

Maybe it would be better if the resistance is percentage based instead of flat, so it will be more effective against leadership skillers and less frustrating for the opposing Tanks.

We've suggested that many times too and sadly last time Diggo said that it will never happen.

But we don't really know if he meant it "can't" happen because of coding limitations or "will not happen because it'd be too much effort and would need huge overhaul of the Fort Fighthing"

The character bonus needs to be changed

Well.. All Classes could use some rework tbh..
I had some ideas once. (Click the upper arrow)

(...)

The formula that was tested on IFBC server introduced a lot of different problems, it was completely counter-intuitive to increase damage by skilling some HP.

Many times I've said that it was (or, they were, including Resistance) far from "perfect" but it was in the right direction and only needed "Fine tuning"

If anything, the tested Damage formula had eliminated the cheesy "Spam Leadership until you die of old age" and brought decent "Diminishing returns"
But yea.. Rip.

 

[RaiderTr]

I mean what are we to do with this?
45 duelers!!! Mostly with upped Captain set! Pure cancer.

No Cortina, Nugget (Kodiak) Bear will save this madness while we have this wonky "Damage Only" Reward system and cheesy Damage formula.
(Not to mention the lack of Server merges)



To think they are planning to increase the Max Character Level because Duelers don't hit us high enough (they need over 2k per Hit and 5k critic) is beyond me.

Edit:


And this is Round 20