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Situation of the Game

lulumcnoob

Staff Sergeant
Former Team Member
It's like walking into Apple and demanding that they stop selling their products because they're too expensive and not everyone can afford them.
It's like walking into Apple, and telling them that a basic function like their SMS app doesn't work properly, the battery used to be awesome in the past but now it lasts for 3 hours, their music manager is years out of date; here's all the ways you could improve it since you always ask for customer feedback... And the wee guy in the store presents you with a new phone to buy with all of the same problems as the last one, but it now has 5% more VRAM, but that increase in power directly makes the problems you experienced with the product even worse.
But if you buy the phone 3x and upgrade it you can kinda sorta get a better working phone than everyone else!

If i was an Apple fanboy in this fictional analogy, i'd be disappointed. In reality I just really want to be an InnoGames fan but quite frankly the product has degraded to the point where i can't be and the playerbase is probably spread too thinly for PVP to properly function in most servers, and I suppose people like me wish to express those feelings to the annoyance of a couple who have expressed that they are happy with the current state of the game.
 
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lulumcnoob

Staff Sergeant
Former Team Member
True, but you don't wanna know how much worse they would have been if the Beta team didn't do their QA for them. Until i just felt like we got as ignored as the general players so i became one again to moan about how bad InnoGames are :p
 

RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
On a not totally related note;
I was wondering why the Hombre weapons' concept was discontinued, which is both Hp & Resist on a Weapon set. (Some people is still after it even tho it's from '16)
R. Livingston had mount set instead of Weapons so it didn't happen for that one.

Now we do have "Shiny Golden set" but it doesn't have Resist, its stat bonuses are "meh" and it's becoming obsolete by the day so I'd rather use and suggest (upgraded) Zapata's even though it doesn't have Hp.
But yea, Zapata is from '18 and Courtier's ain't fit to use as 2 items (No resist or Defense bonus that way)

Sooo... maybe some surprise for us at Easter? :roll:


> And on a more related note;
We understand that you won't get to Update any Mechanics/Formulas any time soon, but please at least acknowledge that they are Outdated/Imbalanced and don't act like they are perfectly fine and keep favoring Damager sets over Tanks' .. (compare Summer Spirits, aka Nugget Bear set, J.Fry with Union Officer and see what I mean...)

I'm totally certain that you very well know the effects of that mistake though. (Although I don't even see a single attempt to nerf)
It costed game at least %25 of the remaining player base, along with about %50 competent Battle Leaders, which directly affecting the quality of (imo still the only proper PvP of the game) Fort Battles, but not limited to that.

I mean even the "best" Fort Battle server, the one and only gets to fill the Mediums, Colorado, struggles to find a person who is willing to take that/or any related responsibility. Everyone is demotivated af ever since.

And who knows what would be the effects of another such "mistake" ..


If only Resistance and Damage bonuses were percentage based
 
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Harsha.1

Private First Class
These two reports probably show in the greatest clarity the situation of the game - in both, played as a premium worker.


You can literally dodge better as a pure LD damager rather than as a tank with a build geared towards dodging. This shows why we are in a destructive feedback loop - people dont dodge well as tanks, become damagers. More damagers mean the remaining tanks dont dodge as well and they reskill as well, just to stay interested in the game.
 

RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
Yea as a Tank you gotta put tons of SP (if not all) into Hp while Damagers put all into Leadership..
And default Attack value is 15 more than Defense (see HERE) ..

Then there are sets like Union Officer & Mosey.. Boosting hit (therefore Critic) chance even further.
(Notice how they are left out from FF championship!)


Furthermore, majority of sets are Hiding boosted. And since Defense can't hold Tower & Wall(s) ...
 
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RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
So..
It's been a whole year since the genius invention of Union Officer, which provided about %50 more Damage and Hit ratios (therefore more Critics) than Upgraded up-to-date Tombola counterparts, which you already know, and there hasn't been any attempt to Nerf it, at all.

There hasn't been any attempt to balance ANY PvP stuff at all either. Like Formula, Reward balancing and all that.


Instead, all we seem to get is, back-to-back endless waves of Event hordes with related Nugget item sales.
While I believe having never ending Events is bad, Sets not being OP at all is something I am thankful for, as long as they are relevant.

I mean, if InnoGames finally seen their power-creep policy mistakes (amplified with Upgrades) and stopped doing that, it's great.
BUT
It's not like previous OP (Damager) sets are disappeared, or balanced/nerfed.

I have LOTS of suggestions written around here but;
If only Resistance and Damage bonuses were percentage based
 
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RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
Oh, let me add that I'm also playing in IFBC and, in contrary to my prediction, Damagers have the upper-hand without Nugget gear too.

Murrieta duelers can have really good hit ratios and go up to 50-60K damages, against R.Livingston set (with Zapata weapons) that came more than a half year later.

So technically 1 damager can kill 3 (Soldier) Tanks, or even more if you count Workers/Advents.


Again,
If only Resistance and Damage bonuses were percentage based
 
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lulumcnoob

Staff Sergeant
Former Team Member
Cataloguing the perfectly balanced PvP on the IFBC world for future reference.



It was interesting to re-read this thread, and the passion of some players who've posted about the universal problems we all have with the PvP, and the universally agreed steps that should be taken to improve things, but i'm sure neither of the two people who could make a game design decision visits any forums to read player feedback. Hopefully Leones didn't give up fighting for us :lol:

IFBC server, once the competition is finished would be the perfect opportunity to test attack and defence number changes, and tower bonus changes, and base att/def value changes, and class bonus changes, etc etc., all on a separate branch of the game which won't effect any income streams, since beta is just a cheap nugget regular world now.
 
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mxj1

Private
The IFBC battles are attacker-sided only because of sets we've been given, with any other combination of sets the meta/balance would be diffrent.
Imagine starting with Mosey's set instead of Murrieta's and removing 150 dmg bonus out of every sector(-300 for full leadership players), then killing all defenders would be almost impossible
 

RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
The main point here is, game is highly skewed in favor of Attackers and Damage (Sets giving Higher Hiding than Traps, high Stat Bonuses almost neutralizing the Tower/Wall bonuses etc etc, wrote all that many times)

Still, you have a point that "Sector Bonus Damage" and its amplifier in Formula has huge effect and all (as I said tonsa times too), but;

1st; you are forgetting that Mosey doesn't have a Mount set, so they would have to give Murrieta mount set anyway. (45x2 = 90 dmg, more or less)

2nd; Damagers (especially Attackers, again!) would have even higher Hit ratios.
I mean even against Murrieta, mounted Tanks (with Upgraded Sets) on their own Tower don't get to dodge more than 35-40 times for the most part and die within 25-35 shoots.
It says enough for the unbiased.


Now lets think of Beta, .NET etc..
Combine Mosey's higher hit ratio (& higher Leadership bonus) with Murrieta/Union sector.. You will mainly see 1200-300 damage per hit, instead of Murri's avg 1k, and less hit ratio.

Heh, of course genius invention of Union Officer will do at least 1500-1700 avg damage, and will have even higher Hit ratio..
AND STILL NOT NERFED EVEN A TAD BIT TO DATE.
 
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RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
So.. it's been almost a whole year since the start of this thread (and even more for others) but sadly the only really positive thing is the '% Based Structure Bonuses & Updated Distance Penalty in Fort Battles. (Sadly no changes for now-inefffective Buffs though..)
Formulas almost got changed too but now.. that plan got scrapped for good I guess.. :hmf:

I think, "Power-Creep" effect is slowed down a little bit.. but.. we didn't see DotD of this year yet.. And the P2W'ness of it.

Meanwhile.. I see Indian supposedly speed set has been made "Level-Based" too, which is also somewhat positive but.. someone again 'forgot' to add "Horseback riding" to it, or update the speed bonus of the Mustang Horse at least.
Only ever use of it was Low-Levels and now it will be bad then too.. Sooo idk why even bother?!

On a side note.. Thankfully there hasn't been any new P2W nugget PvP set..

There has been new bad/negative things.. Like more/new P2W and/or P2P & harder 'Clicky Click' Events..
As far as I can tell.. their absurd Frequency ain't really changed either..

Meanwhile.. Union Officer madness and DPS (or DPH if you will) simulator goes on strong..


So yeah, all-in-all.. we are in a deadlock at best.
 
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I love your coining The West as a "DPS simulator", Raider. That is so true. I have to say based on simple observation that Innogames is allowing this intentionally because it is probably really profitable that way or at worst the only way to make The West solvent as a game property.
 

RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
Well, it's no rocket-science that they rely on the "DPS players are more prone to spend real money" theory..
But it's a lame and not very realistic theory..

It only happens because they make Tank sets weak af while Damager ones are OP af.
 

SisterAbigail

Reservist
I simply don't get your point again, Raider. I am a soldier tank, and since the rework there are only a few battles where I did not dodge 100+. Generally, tanks have become better, if you play around the towers. The current changes seem to have balanced the attacking-defending sides.
 

RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
I can't believe when someone defends this DPS simulator. (By ignoring aaall the issues)
Are you a new player? Lol.

I don't know which server you are talking of but I simply don't/didn't see any real improvements on .Net

100 dodges ain't really much or extraordinary when you don't survive more than 30-40 shoots.
Basically 2-3 rounds to die on point so no change on that.
 
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SisterAbigail

Reservist
Well I am kind of "new", yet lvl 150 so there is no point talking about that. I am not saying that 100 is much, what I said was that it was usually more than that. On 3 occasions more than 200, even.
Still, the current system is a balanced one in my opinion. You should not be able to tank a tower for 4 rounds when 100 players shoot at you, that would be just pointless, like your argument in this case.