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Revised Battle Formula Feedback (Pt 2)

Discussion in 'Version 2.06' started by Diggo11, Aug 22, 2013.

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  1. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    Some towns were swapped so the number is roughly even, probably those 4 players. If they don't do so themselves before the start of the battle, they should be randomly placed within the fort.
     
  2. Jarema 27

    Jarema 27 Private

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    Do you need leader on def or attack ?
     
  3. henry j.

    henry j. Reservist

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    diggo cant you change the map abit , add some rocks , forest a river or something else to give attack a bonus on some strategic places. If you leave the fms like it is.
     
  4. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    I agree that could be both cool and desirable, but not a simple undertaking especially if the balance is not resolved and we have to throw out all the code. Although we want to test properly before releasing, I also don't want to wait indefinitely for long and cumbersome solutions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  5. Pappa

    Pappa Private First Class

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    My friend's stats today: 131 FMS, 0 resistance

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    Looks like it, but good or bad bug I am not sure. Tomorrow we will have to confirm in some manoeuvres!
     
  7. Jarema 27

    Jarema 27 Private

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    Yolo Swaggins - Average Damage 666,Coincidence?
    I don't think so.
    Can we see your skills :)?
     
  8. medfly

    medfly Private

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    i've been in three test forts on attack since the FMS switch, and I continue to have 1 resistance. By my calculations, I should have 5, so unless it was fixed recently, I think the formula is still calculating the wrong skill. :(
     
  9. Franco8

    Franco8 Reservist

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    i want to start a new game. it's very simple.
    i would like to see the computers of the devs work like our system of battles and duels. with a lot and lot of random. an example: you're trying to delete a file..instead the computer deletes 300 files. it seems common no? or maybe you're trying to open a new window in your browser..but the computer opens 500 new windows. you don't know hoh many windows will open, it's random. it shouldn't be very easy work like this :D

    i think that the change stamina-fms it's a good thing, but it doesn't solve the problem of random in battles..more random bring more pv. tanks are still the best.
     
  10. Jarema 27

    Jarema 27 Private

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    FMS instead stamina?
    Works for me,it's much more equalised than before.

    Franco,tanks aren't the best,as you can see on the latest battles,it's very random ,in one I'm 5th shooter,on another I inflicted only 3000 dmg.
     
  11. Bluep

    Bluep Guest

    I think that's what Franco was trying to say: Randomness makes every "skill" like dodging & shooting a very unsure thing.
    HP are the only sure ones: If you double them, you can take twice as much damage before you die. No uncertainity there.
    (Even if you spend hundreds of points to the appropriate (game) skills to double your (fb) shooting skill, you have no guarantee that you hit twice as much. Even if the long term mean would result in factor ~2, it's no use if you don't hit the first few rounds and are dead then because of missing HP)
     
  12. Bluep

    Bluep Guest

    Just got an idea... from the old discussion thread:
    Now for the idea:
    Basic formula for the bonuses is
    Leadership[sup]0.5[/sup] + Skill 2[sup]0.6[/sup] + Skill 3[sup]0.4[/sup] + Sector Attack Bonus or Sector Defense Bonus + Special Bonuses + Default Bonus
    (Btw, there's still the old formula in the Wiki)

    To remove some of that randomness from then first quote, what about chosing the random number not between zero and your bonus, but from a range [min skill value; bonus]?
    Where the minimum skill value may be a
    constant*(Leadership[sup]0.5[/sup] + Skill 2[sup]0.6[/sup] + Skill 3[sup]0.4[/sup])
    in the most simple case; maybe even include a constant2*special bonuses (if those are the ones from sets; but constant2 should be << the skill constant, otherwise it would be too much pay2win).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2013
  13. Franco8

    Franco8 Reservist

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    thanks bluep, also the idea of a constant is good, it can divide different values into different categories and allow, for example, that a tank with values like A=60 D=45 can't never hit a PG with values like A=80 D=65
     
  14. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    This sounds good in theory, but any value higher than zero creates situations where some players have literally 0% chance of hitting/dodging and conversely the other player has 100% chance. For that reason, and remembering my rants in the older threads, I still think the best solution is to adjust other values in the formula. (Obviously that's not the be all and end all, though...) One area of consideration may be the 25 and 10 default bonuses, given the structure bonuses are fairly inflexible keeping attackers : defenders in check.
     
  15. Bluep

    Bluep Guest

    That could only happen if player A has zero skills [skill bonus=0], stands alone on plain field [sektor bonus = 0], has no fb equip [eg +3 attack/defense bonus from the golden gun those bonuses are missing in the Wiki formula and simply added like the default bonus, right?]
    --- resulting in a range [0; default bonus]
    vs a well skilled & equipped player B (only skill matters for the min value, no extra bonuses from (set-)items etc) so that his min value is greater than player A's default bonus.

    That is nearly impossible for 'A shoots B' (attack default = 25) and quite rare for 'B shoots A' (dodge default = 10). *

    BUT what if that naked unskilled solo player A has really no chance then? I'd say it's more than fair, and should encourage everyone participating in fbs to move some skill points from health to real skills, have an eye on the clothes they're wearing and, last but not least, don't hide in a safe corner far away from the fight.

    So what's the con of making such an approach..?

    /edit: * That doesn't even take the distance into account, which "softens" the difference even more
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2013
  16. Jarema 27

    Jarema 27 Private

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    Bluep what with low level players,as far as I see,they already have low chances to hit,after your proposition it will be impossible.
     
  17. *Koshka

    *Koshka Reservist

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    whether you are happy with result of testing? Whether was the test of fights enough? And when to expect replacement of stamina by FMS on ordinary servers? It is clear that there is no wish for mistakes, but to hang for a long time able attack wins always kills forts
     
  18. torpedo3k

    torpedo3k Private

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    it's been 2 weeks of battle testings and I came to like the changing to fms. It allows a wider range of profiles and splits tankers apart of other skills. But I see it very usefull for soldiers premium users. I could keep 5k hp and still fill hiding, leader and fms with 200. This way I've improved my performance and started to gain more upb's as ever in beta.

    But I wonder if other classes can do the same, I haven't tried to simulate how it could be yet.

    Forts are a lot harder to conquer, some formula adjustment is necessary or attackers of a weaker ally will soon lose motivation. As I said before, the formula with stamina had the advantage of making forts change hands more frequently and brought new dinamic into the game.
     
  19. medfly

    medfly Private

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    What ultimately came of this test? Everything switched back to stamina as it was before with no real notice... is the skill switch still under review?
     
  20. *Koshka

    *Koshka Reservist

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    Very much I afflicted sudden, without any announcements, the return replacement of FMS with stamina in sets, well and it is probable in forts formulas. And if to us it was twice given the chance of transfer skills, now the return reskil at our expense? And reskil already in completely discredited formula? Likely it is the worst variant for development of fort fights