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New Battle Formula Feedback

Discussion in 'Version 2.05' started by Diggo11, Jun 5, 2013.

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  1. DancingDeviL

    DancingDeviL Guest

    new formula fort battles?!
    for my character (scrapper), nothing has changed! and perhaps worse!
    with small hp get more damage from enemy damage with a large hp
    accuracy is almost gone, does not take into account (for the whole fight falling 2-3)
    damage inflicted by my character in the new formula has not changed!
     
  2. Al3x

    Al3x Private

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    One last question:

    What's the formula fort atk/def?
     
  3. aamgdp

    aamgdp Private

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    I think with now is need better fort battle bonus for workers. Now they're for example in atack useless. Their bonus do nothing, if the sector has no bonus.

    sorry for my bad english
     
  4. Old Cadger

    Old Cadger Guest

    If your goal in a fort battle is to survive as many shots (hits and misses together) as possible, there is some balance between health and other stats - if you have large max. health, it is better to incrase your chance to dodge while if your change to dodge is great, increasing health helps you more than additional increase of defense. As we have seen, this balance unfortunately favors healh much more than any other stat.

    With the formula you confirmed yesterday I tried to do some calculations to see how it realy works. So let say we have a tank who wants to survive as many shots on him as possible. For simplicity he doesn't care for damage he deals, I didn't take into account resistance nor any character (soldier, critical hits) bonus - each point in HP adds 10 LP, any hit takes 300 LP no matter of what. The question is: If this tank uses his skill points in the optimal way, how much points he must have in HP to have 200 skill points in other stats together?

    Distribution of the 200 skill points is simple to calcuate: 14 in dodging, 38 in leadership and 148 in stamina or hiding (I assume he reskills before each battle to get the best results, depending if he is attacking or defending :-)). This distribution gives him aprox. 29 points to defense, each additional point adds about 0.08 more to defense.

    In the first scenario I calculated he was on some bonus while the one shooting on him not - the shooter had 40 attack and the tank 60 defense. The result was horrible: if the tank had less then 70 000 (!) points in HP (less than 700 000 maximum health), it would be better to reskill and some of the 200 points move to HP!

    In the second scenario the tank was on the grass (40 defense) and was attacked by someone on a tower (80 attack). The result was a bit better - just 4 500 skill points in HP (maximum health 45 000) was needed to make the stats balanced.

    What does this mean?
    It is pretty hard to decide "best stats setup" because of sector bonuses, distance malus etc. which changes during course of battle. Moreover surviving as long as possible is not the only goal - in fact the real goal is (mostly) dealing as much damage as possible but you need to survive long enough to deal the damage. But I believe any reasonable scenario will give similar results. The real problem is that one point in health is much more valuable than one point in any other stat (except for a few first points). The linear vs. exponential is not a problem, it would lead to balance if used properly. If I were you I would try to change the formula to calculate base attack and defense:
    10(a^0.4 + b^0.5 + c^0.6)
    instead of
    a^0.4 + b^0.5 + c^0.6
    and see what will happen. (The 10 is just a guess, the right number may be 5 as well as 100, depending on increase of building bonuses. But it will hardly be something low like 1.5.)

    EDIT: multiplying the bonus maybe won't work also, it would take some time to think about it and I have an exam to do but the way lies somewhere close (prehaps change the formula determinig chance to hit so that the just the difference between attack and defense would determine outcome).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2013
  5. aamgdp

    aamgdp Private

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    I think there could help some reduction of hit and dodge chance for tanks. For example: hit chance-[(maxHP/1000)*2,5] and dodge chance-[(maxHP/1000)*2]
    For player with 15k hp it means his hit chance (over 50 in grass) - 37,5 = 12,5
    With hit chance 12,5 u can't hit anybody.
    For player with 2k hp it means his hit chance (over 60 in grass - he has battle skills) - 5 = 55
    with hit chance 55 its still like near same.
    Player with 15k hp would still survive many hits, but this player would get less xp and bounds because everybody hit him and he cant hit anybody.

    So Devs, think about it.

    sorry for my bad english
     
  6. Gaensegeier

    Gaensegeier Guest

    HI

    after enough battles on beta and now first day battles in germany its obviously:

    attackers now are to strong and the problem is: staima u get by strength

    fullhpskill is nearly the best after the update when u attack a fort, cause u earn ~ 150 to 160 staima by strength and by this ur bonus is much higher then each one on defferside got

    but how to deff this? to delete 160strengthskillstamia u have to skill 160 hiding
    but if u do this and less ur hp by 160 skillpoints to delete the staima u loose 1600 to 3200hp (soldier+premium) for each defender and now u loose cause u havent enough HP/person

    so its in my opinion the staima by strength is a big problem for now who gives each attacker easy wins in fort battles and u got no chance to defend.

    in germany u can see battles from today where defenders loose who normaly have won clearly if old formular would have been stayed

    in my opinion now hp must be lower worth and hiding must give much more bonus then staima
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2013
  7. kernelru

    kernelru Sergeant

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    I try to calculate and missunderstand.
    Anyone can explain please?
    I`m in attack weapon damage is BEAR+i got manny set gives +35 damage
    My leadership 200
    So by formula my damage is 0.2 i belive its in a percentage(+20%) so i hit 42 every round or im wrong

    defender resistance is also 0.2 by formula
    300 times 2(hiding)/3000=0.2

    So why my damage increase +7 with bear,but should be 35 only.
    In all calculation i cant see anything about 7,except if i count 0.2 is 20%
     
  8. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    It is not a percentage, that number is applied directly.
     
  9. kernelru

    kernelru Sergeant

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    then why by formula i have 0.2,but shot +7?
     
  10. futurama1001

    futurama1001 Private First Class Wiki Contributor Former Team Member

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    Where are you getting 0.2 from? This can only be your minimum damage unless you have a very high amount of HP.
     
  11. kernelru

    kernelru Sergeant

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    read up
    BEAR as a weapon

     
  12. futurama1001

    futurama1001 Private First Class Wiki Contributor Former Team Member

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    Yeah, like I said, the bear has a 0-1 damage range. With 200 leadership your damage will be higher than the weapon's original damage unless you have a tonne of HP, so you must be talking about your minimum damage if you got 0.2.
     
  13. aamgdp

    aamgdp Private

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    I have hiding 284, 610 hp... see the hit with golden gun [​IMG]
    But for this i must have very very low hp and max hiding
     
  14. BlueDevil

    BlueDevil Guest

    I recognize that pic - it was from today's battle. A GG only hit you for 123 damage? Only problem is, no one can hit you for more than 1/3 your total HP (unless they changed that rule for the new battle formula). So, I don't know how that factors into the formula.
     
  15. aamgdp

    aamgdp Private

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    Hmmm... max dmg i got was 201...
    my resistance is (300*284)/610=139,67
    but back to that hit... 123+140 is 267... it can be low hit for GG, but GG's range is 232-348, so it's normal... I think the calculate for it is
    (hitDMG - resistance) up to (maxhp/3)
    but somebody who know how is it must explain it
     
  16. Attackers appear to have an advantage with new formulas due to tanks having tons of AP strength, thus stamina. Defenders have little hiding.

    Have you considered reducing the stamina modifier from 0.6 down to 0.5, but leaving hiding at 0.6?

    It might help both balance & also reduce the tanks you claimed was the entire reason for the new formulas.
     
  17. All you need is better clothing, aim on hiding more than leadership. One of my mates made me a script how to calculate the optimal hiding/stamina - aiming/dodging / leadership numbers to get the maximum possible attack/defense rates (only for defending/attacking at a time, i cant do overall calculations though and sorry, only playing the game in hungarian so i might make mistakes at the translations). For example, if you have like 200 points to split among the defending skill points (with the clothes' bonuses of course), the optimal distribution would be 145 hiding 35 leadership and 14-14 aiming-dodging. Of course the clothes' bonuses will be different, but still you can see that the defending clothes should have hiding and a little on everything else. Obviously, if you have one of the expensive super-sets, you dont have to think, just buy them, but that's what west is about nowadays :hmpf:
     
  18. aamgdp

    aamgdp Private

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    today's battle on enewetak...
    i got very low hit with precise coach gun
    [​IMG]
     
  19. ChickenMcGuy

    ChickenMcGuy Staff Sergeant

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    What is your full hp, how many hiding and jeremiah clothes have you got?
     
  20. aamgdp

    aamgdp Private

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    610 hp, 284 hiding, no jeremiah clothes
     
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