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New Battle Formula Feedback

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torpedo3k

Private
what about adjusting the new formula to make double the damage? even for duellers' crits. That will make hp go down faster.
 

fermecatoru

Guest
Class: Adventurer
341 stamina
400 leadership
38 aiming
35 dodging

yes, build for attack. => 24 hits and 5 missed => 8760 dmg, 1st from attackers. i had nice shots, only 300+ and few 400+, with Chinga's gun.
And 29 dodged with 3340 hp

is not a big difference, but "+" for changes.
2nd fight: 25 hits, 19 missed and 9k dmg.

what i like is the fact u can make more dmg with more leadership (like a constant bayonete), and for dueller class is awesome. Resistance i think is useless. And ofc if u want a build for dodging u make full hp. :p
 

Dean.Winchester

Guest
The only thing that's gonna really work is to create a base HP according to your level and apply additional HP at a diminishing algorithm the way the other fort battle skills are now. This max HP variance would only apply during fort battles and your real world health loss would be a percentage equivalent at the end of the fort battle. If you lost 60% of your health in the fort battle, you would lose 60% of your real world health.

Let say for example: A level 120 would have a base of 1000 HP in a fort battle. You could choose to put no points into it to maximize extra damage and resistance via the new formula. If you wanted to tank up, skills in HP could be met with a formula such as X^1.3 where someone with 500 sp in Health would end up with 3226 total HP for a non soldier. Soldier HP bonus could be adjusted to be "+50% additional HP" 100 for prem, naturally, putting a tank at a realistic max of 7500. Again, this is only intended to affect HP calculations during fort battles. As a tank in a few worlds I've seen the advantage of all that extra fat when the duelers start pecking around ;)

I think a system like that in addition to the new calculations (after some minor tweaking) would really see fort battles come into a good balance.
 
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Bluep

Guest
How exactly would it [soldier class/premium] be a handicap?
...you get a bigger malus for the having more HP. Even worse with PA activated; I haven't made exact calculations, but I guess doubling the leadership bonus with an exponent of .5 won't make up for the disadvantage of doubling the HP.

The formulas should contain skill points (incl. clothes, bonuses ofc) on health instead of resulting HP. And the effect should be increased by 50% at least...
So instead of (1200 / max health) it should be more like (180 / health skill incl. bonuses)

Generally, this is a step in the right direction; but as said HPs are still dominating.
They should affect aiming and dodging in a similar way.
 

Leones

The West Team
Your base health at level 120 is ≈1300. Let's assume one is wearing full natty set and golden weapons, this would result in +89 points on health. Your resulting health is then 2190, 2635 or 3080. This isn't that high to be honest, and this is without any base skill points on health. The premium bonus would enable you to put more points on other skills, increasing your effectiveness in fort battles.
 

Diggo11

The West Team
Dev Team
I believe resistance shall be buffed soon. The new formula would look like this:

(300 / MaxHP) * (Stamina OR Hiding)

Now, before you think "300 HP, WAAAH!!!", look what happens when the damage formula is rearranged:

(Weapon / MaxHP) * (Leadership) + Weapon

This only struck me when I was looking at ways to increase resistance, so it is more inline with the additional damage. (Because excluding HP tanks, who will want to come to fort fights if they die faster?)
 

Bluep

Guest
...why still use maxHP instead of skill points? Shouldn't soldier class have an advantage of its (premium) bonus instead of an disadvantage...?

@Leones - what use is it if the soldier can distribute more points on other skills, when the effect of those gets reduced again by his HP bonus?
 

Leones

The West Team
If you want any number of health points above roughly 3000, then the soldier premium helps. If you want to have it slightly lower, then premium does not help, and if you want to have it really low, you'll die soon anyway.
 

aamgdp

Private
...why still use maxHP instead of skill points? Shouldn't soldier class have an advantage of its (premium) bonus instead of an disadvantage...?

@Leones - what use is it if the soldier can distribute more points on other skills, when the effect of those gets reduced again by his HP bonus?
If u have as soldier no skill points in health and no from clothes, then u have same hp as other charakter without skill points in health...
 

Old Cadger

Guest
The only thing that's gonna really work is to create a base HP according to your level and apply additional HP at a diminishing algorithm the way the other fort battle skills are now. This max HP variance would only apply during fort battles and your real world health loss would be a percentage equivalent at the end of the fort battle. If you lost 60% of your health in the fort battle, you would lose 60% of your real world health.
There are other ways and this one is realy awful. Nearly anything that punishes large HP leads to balance. Such as critical hits - at avarage dueler without premium ads 1% of target's HP more damage with each hit. Low effectivness is the problem (just 1-2% and only 1/4 of players). If they combine more such features, it may (must!) work.

The technical intricacies aren't 100% perfect, but I believe the analogy is correct.
Can you show us how attack/defense skills really affect chance to hit? It is hard to try to guess the optimal skill distribution when we dont's know how the skills work: +30 points in HP adds me +300 LP which help me survive one additional hit. But what I get when I get +30 dodging?
 

Diggo11

The West Team
Dev Team
Can you show us how attack/defense skills really affect chance to hit? It is hard to try to guess the optimal skill distribution when we dont's know how the skills work: +30 points in HP adds me +300 LP which help me survive one additional hit. But what I get when I get +30 dodging?
You can see the exact fomula on the wiki: click here. Remember though, exponents on beta are now 0.5, 0.4 and 0.6 respectively, not as stated there.

Leadership
+1 bonus with one point
+2 bonus with 4 points
+3 bonus with 9 points
+4 bonus with 16 points
+5 bonus with 25 points
+6 bonus with 36 points
+7 bonus with 49 points
+8 bonus with 64 points
+9 bonus with 81 points
+10 bonus with 100 points

Aiming / Dodging
+1 bonus with one point
+2 bonus with 6 points
+3 bonus with 16 points
+4 bonus with 32 points
+5 bonus with 56 points
+6 bonus with 88 points
+7 bonus with 130 points
+8 bonus with 181 points
+9 bonus with 243 points
+10 bonus with 316 points

Stamina / Hiding
+1 bonus with one point
+2 bonus with 3 points
+3 bonus with 6 points
+4 bonus with 10 points
+5 bonus with 15 points
+6 bonus with 20 points
+7 bonus with 26 points
+8 bonus with 32 points
+9 bonus with 39 points
+10 bonus with 46 points
 

Bluep

Guest
You can see the exact fomula on the wiki:...
I think Old Cadger wanted to know what actually happens with those added up bonus numbers, right?

(As far as I know, this would be:
- get a random number RS between 0 and your shooting bonus
- get a random number RD between 0 and your opponent's dodging bonus
- if RS is greater than RD, you'll hit your opponent; otherwise you'll miss
correct me if I'm wrong ^^ )


If u have as soldier no skill points in health and no from clothes, then u have same hp as other charakter without skill points in health...
Yes, and if you don't attend fort battles, you'll get no damage from them at all! Interesting, isn't it? Please use serious examples ;)
 
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Old Cadger

Guest
I think Old Cadger wanted to know what actually happens with those added up bonus numbers, right?

(As far as I know, this would be:
- get a random number RS between 0 and your shooting bonus
- get a random number RD between 0 and your opponent's dodging bonus
- if RS is greater than RD, you'll hit your opponent; otherwise you'll miss
correct me if I'm wrong ^^ )
Yes, this is the one that I tould like to know. IF it works this way than the chance to hit should be:

A = shooter's attack (the number next to the crossed axes at fort battle character stats) - malus for distance
D = target's defense (the number next to the shield)

If A>D then the chance to hit is (A-D/2)/A.
Otherwise the chance to hit is A/2D.

Are those formulas correct or not?
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I got an idea how to make fort battles more interesting and reducing the need for max HP for everyone. It's not so new (most of MMORPGs use it) and it would need much of testing but I believe it may lead to very interesting change if used wisely:

If you make some stat to increase weapon damage greatly, it will lead to two extreme possibilities: tank with huge HP and low damage per hit and a damage dealer with low HP but great weapon damage. Let say a pure tank will have 10.000 HP and weapon damage 400 per hit while pure DD will have only 2.000 HP and weapon damage 1.000. Tank will kill a DD in 5 hits while DD needs 10 hits to kill the tank. It desn't look like a chnage. BUT if you have team with some tanks and some DDs it will be better than a team with only tanks (if the tanks protect their DDs). So there will be much more possibilities and demands - not only you have to get people with as high total HP as possible (as it is today) but you will have to try to get good team composition - get some DDs but not too much (the exact ratio may depend on composition of opponent's team, type of fortress and if you are attacking or defending). Moreover you may have some hybrid build with some extra HP and some extra weapon damage which may or may not be better than one of the extremes.

As I said before it will need some calculating and lots of testing to balance it well, but it should be worth it.
 

bisser

Private
(As far as I know, this would be:
- get a random number RS between 0 and your shooting bonus
- get a random number RD between 0 and your opponent's dodging bonus
- if RS is greater than RD, you'll hit your opponent; otherwise you'll miss
correct me if I'm wrong ^^ )
So, a (huge) part is still based on luck?
 

Jamshoot

Reservist
The formule is interesting, but in my opinion it doesn't reach the intended goals. If I understood corretly, the goal of inventing this formule was decreasing the effectivness of hp and making people with low max HP more effective.

I'd propose this solution, which is easier :D Make a relation between chance of critical hit with the HP of an enemy. And give the ability to crit to every class, not only duelist. For example, leave the duelist with 10% per crit. hit and everyone else, for example 5% per crit. hit. It's important not to break the balance made by old formula.

The other idea is: make a penalty for hp stacking. For example, once you get 10k of HP, each point in health grants you not 10 HP per point but 9. And the penalty increases even more for each thousand of HP. The numbers are to be tweaked ofc.
 

ChickenMcGuy

Staff Sergeant
I believe resistance shall be buffed soon. The new formula would look like this:

(300 / MaxHP) * (Stamina OR Hiding)
1330 HP with 800 hiding:
(300/1330)*800=180

This is to low. 1330HP get 5-6 shoots and killed.

Why not change this to %?
You can get earn 60-75% dmg reduce with 400 hiding or stamina (your full HP is 1290), and this can maximize to 85-90%.
 
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