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Moderation

Discussion in 'Version 1.X' started by Jakkals, Mar 21, 2012.

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  1. Jakkals

    Jakkals Guest

    Well the rules say I can post here in a non provoking fashion and phrasing my words well.

    Well just a few thoughts:

    The off topic/on topic conundrum

    In the .net forum I was targeted in my opinion over a period of 6 days I received about 7 infractions for this rule. I later gave up and just posted argumentative and insulting posts so that atleast my ban was not over nonsense. Basically in my opinion the rule is interpreted wrong in that forum. Lets say the topic is "Green Apples"

    Green Apples

    So I would post

    I like eating green apples and my favorite is the granny smith.

    Then usually I would crack some kind of joke as I like the humor I can sometimes come up with and as well this is a game forum so humor should be one of the main objects of a forum. Also it builds up a rapport with other players and it can make us cross over from mere strangers to online friends.

    So lets say joke. This would be digression of the topic. So a part of the post is on topic a part is off topic. So the next poster actually have something to work with. In effect although in part of the topic I was off topic my on topic contribution means in my opinion the whole of the post cannot be considered off topic. As the rule does not say "no digression from the topic and has this rather vague description of off topic" I would say that in the ordinary meaning of such a rule I shouldnt be given a infraction or even a warning.

    Finally Holden Caulfield said "I like it when somebody digresses and all. It's more interesting and all." And yes I also think this if we all keep on topic the whole post through then we have a more boring topic and a more boring forum.

    Ok but that is the .net server which is imo on of the worst game forums I have ever encountered. I remember the tribal wars forum where one would have on a battle thread between alliances about 2000 posts from about 20 guys poking fun at each other and insulting each other etc. That was fun.


    Mod bias
    I also think that it might be that a decision is taken about a certain user and then reasons is sought to get rid of him. Also I am also wondering about the influence certain players have over moderators. It was very strange to me that when a certain user was involved a particular moderator would keep on infracting me and this was with 2 users.

    Therefore I propose that moderation be taken to a open website where all users can monitor moderation if they wanted. You would see who reported you and why. Also you would be able to follow a particular users reports and make comments about it. The reason I think this is needed is that we have in some worlds forum moderators in an opposing alliance to you. Also with players playing multiple worlds they may have moderator friends in other worlds. So a particular user maybe using his friendship to get an opposing player banned. Also a player that is infracted should have the right to study all the posts in game and in forum between the particular moderator and reporting player. Either that or remove that rules. I dont believe that there should be a rule against inferring mod bias to begin with. This means a player may be subjected to mod bias without any recource. Cause the moment you infer it in the .net server you get 2 infractions then thereafter you get another 3 infractions cause of mod bashing. Thats 5 you only need 10 to get a month ban.

    Open and transparent penalty system. Peer review of moderation. Paid moderators

    In the .net server there is no mention of how you will get banned and how the infractions points is calculated. And what would be your penalty. Why shouldnt we be told how you are punished?or how the penalty system works.

    Also I think moderation should be open to peer review: So another user may see why you get infracted he can then judge the quality of the moderation in a point scale system. If a moderator keep on making bad decisions and biased decisions Innogames should can him permanently. The volunteer hogwash is just a bunch of nonsense. You gave him power and authority although he volunteered for it does not mean you should be subjected to bias and bad moderating.

    The overall impression moderation leaves with Innogames paying customers is just pathetic. There is about 3 decisions I would agree with in my 2 bans and 20 infractions. Finally its time that Innogames should wise up and realize that their paying customers(cause with all their schemes most player are now paying customers) is treated very poorly and that ultimately you cannot let volunteers ruin the game experience permanently for many paying customers. Stop being cheapskates and get us objective paid moderators(on their payroll) in our forums. I dont care whether he knows nothing about the game.

    And rethink your rules. Game forum should say everything. How many players dont post there anymore cause they was banned or they got disgusted with moderation on that particular forum. For example a user there says" christians burn witches and other unmentionables" and then in another thread he used the N-word. This is considered fair because of context. The rules do not mention context. So in truth the moderators can just about come up with any nonsense interpretation they want to cover their friends and to punish their enemies.

    Please dont delete this thread. Innogames was given an oppurtunity to respond to this. They have further insulted me by not even responding to my e-mail. It is time that moderation be discusses in full.

    This is a telegram I got in game by another user

    "didnt ask you to carry over mail.
    and dont post.
    they are targeting you.
    you will be infracted for sneezing.

    i got the record of infractions, many cases for the same post, that was relivant and on topic, and many more cases when i was already infractured.

    ...................
    question.
    are there lots of people on the main forum??? :)"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2012
  2. abedy

    abedy Lance Corporal

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    Sounds very reasonable. And don't be worried, InnoGames is ignoring me too. Been waiting for my reward for 5 weeks. I think we cannot do anything, unfortunately. Well we can still stop playing and advice our friends to do the same if this won't chance or improve. Maybe this would chance their ignorance.
     
  3. Das Dee

    Das Dee Guest

    Hi Jakkals,

    this forum is intended to be used for The West beta version only and not for public sites. Therefore I kindly ask to contact your local CM.
     
  4. Jakkals

    Jakkals Guest

    this is a general discussion about moderation. my only other option is to place it on the Innogames facebook site. I dont care what Da Twista has to say.
     
  5. fafer

    fafer Guest

    Did you read forum rules?

    "Every complaint or criticism regarding moderation should be voiced using the support system, or PMed to the Community Manager in minor cases. If you think your request affects a large part of the community and has to be discussed in public, you can post it in the "General" forum in a non-provoking and well-phrased way."
     
  6. Bluep

    Bluep Guest

    Well, this IS the general discussion forum, as general as it gets ;)
    (The forum rules want to prevent public discussions/flames about specific moderators and/or mod actions)

    In general - I'm not always happy with some mod actions, neither here nor in the german forums; and a possibility to rate these actions would be nice.
    But outsourcing it to an open website? That's a step too far, I think - it would be sufficient to have a voting & commenting system for (registered) forum users.
     
  7. Jakkals

    Jakkals Guest

    Bluep the problem with the "forum" used by Innogames is that it is a out of the box forum. A UK Visual Basic group uses exactly the same forum. So I suggested an outside website run by Innogames as I'm not certain of how "programmable" this forum is.

    But yes a ranking system for moderation would be good across all forums. It may force a moderator to give a bit more thought to their moderation.
     
  8. Das Dee

    Das Dee Guest

    Well, as far as I know the forum software includes some kind of reputation, so user can rate the post done by other users - not the general behavior. But, also in this case it's the local CMs decision to activate it.
    I've still got the opinion that the CMs are responsible to evaluate the mods behaviour in case there are complains in an objective way. I (for myself) am agains any kind of public denunciation (what this would be) neither for users nor for mods.
     
  9. Jakkals

    Jakkals Guest

    Well I don't trust his judgment anymore and get the impression that he has a negative impression of me based on his public statements. Also like I said if you infer mod bias you get infracted..if he the CM now think your disrespectful to the moderator its considered mod bashing and you get further infractions. Classic case would be the previous CM there:so I ask what will be allowed with the new referral system. I mention as example "what if a player creates a false persona on facebook and uses hooks to bring in lots of referrals. I was thinking along the lines of a jessi june(google+). So he writes he is not interested in my "weasel "interpretations. So in the next post I write at the bottom "greetings weasel". Of course referring to myself. So they infracted me 3 points for mod bashing cause it was interpreted as though I claimed he was the weasel. So you see there is no transparency and anything goes for moderators and CM'S. You raise a genuine concern and is either ignored or infracted. if you want people to spend their money on your game this is not the way to go.
     
  10. Jakkals

    Jakkals Guest

  11. darkguardian666

    darkguardian666 Sergeant Former Team Member

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    Stop whining about things that happen in another forum. Every forum has his own guidelines for moderations. If you have porblems on the .net-forum cry there and whine at the community-manager there.
    This is the public beta and it has NOTHING to do with the .net-forum.
     
  12. tribgrep

    tribgrep Corporal

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    DG is right in this matter, if you have a formal complaint on how things are run on the .net servers please contact the community manager. He/She will take your complaints very seriously and will try to help you as good as he/she can.

    Da Twista Community Manager for the-west.net

    Could a moderator of some sort close this discussion?
     
  13. Jakkals

    Jakkals Guest

    i dont see why this need to be closed . its a discussion. if anyone feel they need to add something about moderation , who are you tribgrep to deny them that right. i know you folks are probably not used to freedom of speech but this topic is well within the boundaries of the rules and we all come from different servers telling us we should only share our thoughts on this world only is a bit silly in my opinion since for most this is not their main world. And certain things like moderation has uniform rules that transcend servers therefore that should be discussed in a forum like this.

    ps like mennik said tribgrep moderators shouldnt be treated \/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2012
  14. tribgrep

    tribgrep Corporal

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    First of all , Jakkals, there are NO uniform rules considering moderation. Only vague standards.

    Secondly, I do not try to withhold discussions from you, only if the discussion is on the wrong forum.

    Third, you are the one that broke the rules the moment you put something on the forum that has little/nothing to do with the beta version (yes, that actually is a rule).

    (ps I have not been a moderator for quite some time now ;) )
     
  15. Jakkals

    Jakkals Guest

    listen tribgrep you little tribgrep you ...the discussion although using example was general in nature. i may use examples from other servers to explain points in a discussion.

    ps if you dont stop treating the moderators right now i will have to report you and you may get banned.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2012
  16. tribgrep

    tribgrep Corporal

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    Haha, you might want to try that :P I treat Mods on a daily basis. They need some treatment haha :D
     
  17. mennik

    mennik Sergeant

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    why are you 2 still having this discussion? :p
     
  18. Das Dee

    Das Dee Guest

    Howdee,

    Now we reached the point to close. Not because of the topic but spamming.

    Any complains via pm adressed to me please.

    *modwashere*
     
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