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Mini Job Times

Which work time is the best?


  • Total voters
    114
  • Poll closed .

Bluep

Guest
Very nice :) Bluep -
I don't think that the products should be a linear function though - In the last version it was very important to reward players for being online. That seems to be forgotten. :)
In order to let it be just a little bit more attractive to do short job times - drop rates should be a little higher for short job times than for long.
The active ones already get rewarded by much higher EXP & wages - so you can chose if you prefer those or the (more guaranteed) products at longer durations.

This would require an extremely radical shift in the technical implementation, user interface and game design. (More so than any other change to the job system to date.) Once the current system is finalised and out of beta it has the potential to serve the game well, there are plenty of other issues more pressing than changing the job system for a third time.
.. an even more radical shift than from 1.36 to 2.01, and from 2.03 to 2.04?
It's not the first time that such a system has been asked for by the players; and every chance to implement it has been neglected so far.
You're mentioning the UI? Well, the redesign with 2.04 goes far more than adding a slider to 2.03's job window (basically a horizontal scrollbar - you already have nice code for scrollbars).
And technical implementation? Now you're already fetching the complete job data for every little change in labor points from the server - it's only a tiny step to use functions of labor points AND time instead of LP only.
And I wasn't asking for third change - this should be the second, as you already have mentioned it's not finalized yet.

Sorry, I really appreciate your work here so far, but this was a typically political answer - you gave vague answers why it might be difficult, but you didn't answer why the people behind TW don't want such a solution.

(We don't ask for having all premium features for free or something ineconomic like that. Everyone could understand that.
We're asking for a feature that would allow more people to play TW because of its greater flexibility.)
 

Diggo11

The West Team
Dev Team
Bluep, I know you've obviously spent alot of time thinking about this idea, but don't let the frustration steal your tongue. I know you're better than that. The answer I gave you was succinct and brutally honest, not political. (Note the absence of a promise to you, hehe.)

We're on beta so we can contribute productive input. You know we appreciate tester assistance, but after many months, 2.04 is here. (Here no less than by popular demand, a demand to bring back the old system of selectable work times, never completely free ones.) We can tweak it, fix it and improve it but we can't just rewrite the core foundation, the culmination of so much work. At least, not immediately, or not without an exceptional reason. Based on what I have seen of the new job system, although obviously lacking polish, there is nothing alarming to constitute such a reason. Given this, I had hoped to avoid delivering an after-the-fact rant, as I don't see it as productive input at all.

I'm not in a position to divulge technical intricacies of the job system, but a rudimentary knowledge is sufficient to see the gap between what you have proposed and the past and present systems. All have inherently relied on recognised work times, as you saw when 2.04 was introduced in the form of disappearing jobs when several work times ceased to exist. Free work times demands this dependance be removed, requiring technical changes indeed well beyond the scope of those made in 2.0 and 2.04, which to my knowledge had no comparable barriers. Certainly nothing we could tack on as a last minute change, even without mentioning the third required redesign of the user interface and other flow on effects to game design that must be considered.

Would I like to see completely free work times in the game? Without any deep analysis, yes. Would our game designer Ashock agree? Perhaps, I can't see why not. It is not the desire that binds us but the reality. The reality is that we have already have a beta-ready solution to the problem you wish to solve, that has been demanded by a vast majority of players, and in resembling the old system is a tried and tested success. The reality is also that such a system would require the most resources placed into its creation since the job system was written for 1.0. There are plenty of other game aspects in more dire need of attention than adding deluxe to our job system. I'm not saying it won't ever happen, but it's certainly next to no easier to do it now than later, so there is no reason to delay the benefits of 2.04 unnecessarily.
 
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torinogranata

Reservist
5 minutes with 2.03 drops rates. It's good for players who are most involved
But I prefer also 2 hours job for who want to play "slow".( but less money experience and drop rates)
 

xDiego

Staff Sergeant
Elite Tester
It's even worse now. We want 2 hour jobs and 30 minutes jobs. NO 15 seconds jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Make 5 minutes or 10 minutes instead of the 15 seconds jobs!!!!!!
And then the game designers ask themselves why people leave the game... It's clear why people stop playing
 
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foscock

Reservist
It's even worse now. We want 2 hour jobs and 30 minutes jobs. NO 15 seconds jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Make 5 minutes or 10 minutes instead of the 15 seconds jobs!!!!!!
And then the game designers ask themselves why people leave the game... It's clear why people stop playing
I don't want 2 hour job times so I guess they listened to me :lol: If the difference between 1 hour and 2 hour is going to make people leave the game, then good luck to them.

15 seconds is probably not very useful to a level 120, but for someone starting a new character it will be very handy. You do remember being a low level, don't you?
 
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killado

Staff Sergeant
15 seconds is probably not very useful to a level 120, but for someone starting a new character it will be very handy. You do remember being a low level, don't you?
There is a problem with that idea... a low level will take over 2h to make a trek that you make in 15 minutes when you are 120. So the job time is just the small point of it. So a 5 minutes job is very similar to a 15 seg job for them...
If you say that a dueler or a fort fighter likes the 15 seg jobs just to use there remaining energy and get back into the hotel before anyone can catch them, that is totally correct.
 

foscock

Reservist
There is a problem with that idea... a low level will take over 2h to make a trek that you make in 15 minutes when you are 120. So the job time is just the small point of it. So a 5 minutes job is very similar to a 15 seg job for them...
If you say that a dueler or a fort fighter likes the 15 seg jobs just to use there remaining energy and get back into the hotel before anyone can catch them, that is totally correct.
Not sure how travel times have any bearing on job times. I was thinking more of those quests where you have to do X number of jobs...X times 15 seconds is pretty good for that.
 

Gaensegeier

Guest
And then the game designers ask themselves why people leave the game... It's clear why people stop playing
sure it is, if one dont care for his consummers, the consummers leave and join an other game.....

its not the first game, InnoGames is going to throw away.

i realy dont understand, why asking for feedback of the community, if no one care about it. same it was for years in german forum. asking for feedback and noone care, all this threads are just a joke...
 

olga

Master Sergeant
sure it is, if one dont care for his consummers, the consummers leave and join an other game.....

its not the first game, InnoGames is going to throw away.

i realy dont understand, why asking for feedback of the community, if no one care about it. same it was for years in german forum. asking for feedback and noone care, all this threads are just a joke...
For the first time ever since I started playing this game - ( 4 years now) InnoGames are listening - and doing their best to take our feedback into account. It is not possible to do what every single one of us want - because we don't want the same thing.

But if you take your time to read all the treads in this forum about verion2.04- You wills see that they do listen now.

I still don't love all of it - but it is getting better - for the first time - I think I am looking forward to the update :up:

I still hate the 15 sec - and have no use for extra $ and exp at the low job times - I am only looking for drops- products and item.

I don't get why we have to be able to do all jobs at level 120 - the game is now too easy.

I don't get the job window -and all those pickaxes - it is to complicated - I preferred the number of work points - but now I can see those too.
 

Gaensegeier

Guest
For the first time ever since I started playing this game - ( 4 years now) InnoGames are listening - and doing their best to take our feedback into account. It is not possible to do what every single one of us want - because we don't want the same thing.

But if you take your time to read all the treads in this forum about verion2.04- You wills see that they do listen now.

I still don't love all of it - but it is getting better - for the first time - I think I am looking forward to the update :up:

.
i cant agree with u, sry for that

InnoGames startet a survey about working times. 57% and more dont agree with innogames. in total nearly 80% of the betacommunity wishes to have other working times, like InnoGames decide. this is what u call, they are listening? 80% tell no, but InnoGames tell yes, and this is listening to community?

people told, that building town is a work too, InnoGames dont care about
people told about the many disbalance in fort battles and duells, InnoGames dont care about
people told about the disbalance getting easy bonds, InnoGames dont care about
people told, about the disbalance between Pay for win player and play for haveing fun player, InnoGames dont care about
people told, about 0 ep duellists, InnoGames dont care about
people warnt, that now the multis and product slaves will rise up, InnoGames dont care about
i can give many many more points of disbalancing, but why should i continue speak with a wall?

ofc they start to listen....i only see that they do what they like, and not that they are interestet in feedback
 
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TheMoonWoman

Guest
I like the 10 minutes and 1 hour jobs. :up:

But I don´t see any sense for the 15 seconds now, only for new players untill level 10!
So it will be great when the working times are 10 minutes - 30 minutes and 1 hour. :)
 

futurama1001

Private First Class
Wiki Contributor
Former Team Member
i cant agree with u, sry for that

InnoGames startet a survey about working times. 57% and more dont agree with innogames. in total nearly 80% of the betacommunity wishes to have other working times, like InnoGames decide. this is what u call, they are listening? 80% tell no, but InnoGames tell yes, and this is listening to community?
57% of people, including yourself, probably don't understand what the 1 hour job system entails, nor have the ones who continue to complain, including yourself, read or at least paid attention to the posts that try and explain it. 1 hour jobs in this system are not half as good as 2 hour jobs as they would be if the two existed together. They replace 2 hour jobs as the new max work time and therefore have (roughly) the same rewards. The base exp/cash for most jobs is not quite as high now as it was in the 2 hour system, but at 5 gold pickaxes it more or less balances out, and I think this is a good thing as it places more importance on specialising in jobs like we have had to up until now.

Jobs are not the best source of exp/cash by any stretch of the imagination, so we can assume that the majority of people are interested in jobs for their product, and possibly item drops. Item drops have not changed from 2 hour jobs to 2 hour jobs, and product drops are actually 50% higher when doing 1 hour jobs in the new system due to the base time changing to 10 minutes (1/6 of an hour) as opposed to 30 minutes (1/4 of two hours).

Combine that with the fact that 1 hour jobs cost only 12 energy and you've got:
  • Half the energy cost.
  • Similar rewards when doing jobs you're specced for.
  • More products.

Please tell me how 1 hour jobs are worse than 2 hours.
 

Bluep

Guest
...Please tell me how 1 hour jobs are worse than 2 hours.
You can only save 12 energy per task queue slot (before a level up or when sleeping in a cozy barrack).
But that's a minor disadvantage, in all other cases the 1 hour option is fine.

(But I'd prefer 5/30/60 or 10/30/60 after finishing the 15sec tutorial phase, as most others do...)
 

futurama1001

Private First Class
Wiki Contributor
Former Team Member
You can only save 12 energy per task queue slot (before a level up or when sleeping in a cozy barrack).
But that's a minor disadvantage, in all other cases the 1 hour option is fine.
I don't think this really matters when the most you can use on any one activity is only 12 energy anyway. It won't matter so much to lose a bit more than you're used to when everything costs so much less. I've never been one to care about losing a bit of energy anyway, in the long run you're not going to notice that extra 12 energy you could've had a year ago.

Bluep said:
(But I'd prefer 5/30/60 or 10/30/60 after finishing the 15sec tutorial phase, as most others do...)
+1, although the product percentages are worked out based on the "middle time", so having that middle time at 10 minutes gives us better drop rates for an hour. The formula could be changed quite easily though, but quite honestly having 15 second jobs, while rather pointless, doesn't bother me at all since I never do those minimum length jobs regardless of what they are.
 

fafer

Guest
  • Half the energy cost.
  • Similar rewards when doing jobs you're specced for.
  • More products.

Please tell me how 1 hour jobs are worse than 2 hours.
a) products prices will drop a lot
b) market economy will be destroyed
c) there will be even more cash ingame (as opposed continuous changes to reduce ingame cash)
d) game will become a lot easier and thus more boring (unless dueling and HP fort fighting get some changes/improvements) ?

i did vote for 1h job, but getting 10 wood with silver all-pickaxes clearing forest without higher income premium in 1h and for only 12 energy is really too much.

EDIT:
to explain point b):
products will be cheap, crafted items will be cheap which leaves only way to spend cash on super rare items. so expect millions to pay for rare tombola items and rare recipes
 
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Bluep

Guest
a bit offtopic, but...
...to explain point b):
products will be cheap, crafted items will be cheap which leaves only way to spend cash on super rare items...
Well, in my case* I'd start to buy products & crafting items if the prices would reach a reasonable level. If they really drop, then I'll have less money than I have now :)

*and not only my case - most of the people I know in TW refuse to take part in the market crazyness. Only trades between friends/town members for something between selling & buying prize.
 

killado

Staff Sergeant
a) products prices will drop a lot
b) market economy will be destroyed
c) there will be even more cash ingame (as opposed continuous changes to reduce ingame cash)
d) game will become a lot easier and thus more boring (unless dueling and HP fort fighting get some changes/improvements) ?
a- Well it depends on the products. Right now some products have a massive cost since few people can make the jobs they can be dropped (peace and lotus flowers). With the new version, those will get a lower price.
b- well, that one is already destroyed... when people ask for 800k for a younger revolver or 2M for a item from a tombola... nothing more to say.
c- with the last version the money got a big reduction. On the other side, more products means more taxes for the market and more money for the bank.
d- Not so... after getting over 2 hours trying to explain the new process of the jobs, only 4 in 53 persons could understand it. The other ones where just happy that they have 10000 HP and can do all jobs. (when the version arrives to the outside world... there will many questions to go around, mostly the players that started on the last 2 years)
 

girafi

Guest
a) products prices will drop a lot
b) market economy will be destroyed
c) there will be even more cash ingame (as opposed continuous changes to reduce ingame cash)
d) game will become a lot easier and thus more boring (unless dueling and HP fort fighting get some changes/improvements) ?

i did vote for 1h job, but getting 10 wood with silver all-pickaxes clearing forest without higher income premium in 1h and for only 12 energy is really too much.

EDIT:
to explain point b):
products will be cheap, crafted items will be cheap which leaves only way to spend cash on super rare items. so expect millions to pay for rare tombola items and rare recipes
I agreed with Fafer.

You got to many product for a few hours of playing. It will just become to easy and you will grow to fast. You got to many items, the game needs a difficulty. After a job, you have to hope you got the products. Now just set it on and after 1 hour I got the items. I think the fun of the game will lose. There will be no challenge anymore. So I say 2 hour jobs ;)
 

olga

Master Sergeant
I agreed with Fafer.

You got to many product for a few hours of playing. It will just become to easy and you will grow to fast. You got to many items, the game needs a difficulty. After a job, you have to hope you got the products. Now just set it on and after 1 hour I got the items. I think the fun of the game will lose. There will be no challenge anymore. So I say 2 hour jobs ;)
It does not get more challenging to have to wait 2 hours to se what you found, just more boring. One hour works fine. But some of the interesting and rare objects are too easy to find now.
 

father jack

Private First Class
I think your all missing the point of updates? It is to get more people to join. Not to get them to leave. So why join and be bored after working 2 hours for nothing ;)