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Let's talk about Fort Battles, Adventures and Duelling

SisterAbigail

Reservist
Lol you are just delusional

"talking of all .Net"
I guess .net is a minority compared to the national servers, so yeah

I'm not saying that your point is irrelevant tho, I'm saying that there are other servers as well, where it is indeed balanced atm
 

Apotequil13

Reservist
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  • As you can see in the picture, the reward is much too small for such a large number of deflected and collected shots.Rewards for duels, forts and adventures must be changed. They are old and no longer correspond to the present.

  • I propose that the duel list be similar to how to search for adventure partners. My main server is Ro16 (the most active in Romania) but when I want to play a duel, my duel list sometimes has only 3-4 pages (12-16 players) This makes the duel quite boring. I want more, that's why I think a way to search for opponents on all local servers would be more fun.

  • Adventures need new maps and the option to make the team you want to play the match with. There should also be penalties for those who leave the game or do not want to participate in the game in a competitive way, there really should be.


  • In addition, the current way of forming teams is quite wrong. As we well know, it is the weapon that makes the difference there. Therefore, other aspects should be taken into account, not just Lv as it is today. Not to mention that small players or those without good weapons actually have no chance against those with upgraded weapons bought from the shop.
  • I propose as a reward for the fort:

    + 5 oup to those who faint during the fight
    Usable for the fort and adventures
    Increasing the experience offered
    Tanks do not receive experience (in the absence of damage) Therefore a reward system must be thought of that does not only benefit those who cause damage


  • A penalty must be imposed on those who contribute to such a high cost of attacking a fort: Screenshot_32.png
 
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RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
you are just delusional
I'm realistic.. whether you like it or not..
But I think you are selfish.. and clueless..
I guess .net is a minority compared to the national servers, so yeah
Yea right. That's why ppl coming to .Net from National servers :D
I'm sure they get very low revenue from .Net too :njub:
the reward is much too small for such a large number of deflected and collected shots.Rewards for duels, forts and adventures must be changed. They are old and no longer correspond to the present.
Yes, that's one part of the problem.

I've shared an image too, on first page, comparing Points gained from Batles to be added to Ranks.
No wonder Damagers fill first pages of Ranks. (New servers can be misleading though)
 
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Franco8

Reservist
A new idea about fort battle ranking (not ranks): here in beta i'm 26 on the fort battle rank and have almost the same score as chickenmcguy, who has more dodges and circa double of my damage dealt. I think that's awful that i have the same score of a guy who did double my total damage dealt, for me it's not fair that adventurer receive a bonus only for just being adventurer (if you think the bonus is ok, to be fair, you should give a bonus on whoever isn't worker on the experience and construction ranking or whoever isn't dueler/soldier on the dueling ranking, etc etc).
I will remove completely this unfair advantage on the ranking, or at least reduce the bonus by half. It's simple, if adventurers are bad in battle they should be bad in the ranking also: the ranking should be representative of the gameplay
 

lulumcnoob

Staff Sergeant
Former Team Member
A new idea about fort battle ranking (not ranks): here in beta i'm 26 on the fort battle rank and have almost the same score as chickenmcguy, who has more dodges and circa double of my damage dealt. I think that's awful that i have the same score of a guy who did double my total damage dealt, for me it's not fair that adventurer receive a bonus only for just being adventurer (if you think the bonus is ok, to be fair, you should give a bonus on whoever isn't worker on the experience and construction ranking or whoever isn't dueler/soldier on the dueling ranking, etc etc).
I will remove completely this unfair advantage on the ranking, or at least reduce the bonus by half. It's simple, if adventurers are bad in battle they should be bad in the ranking also: the ranking should be representative of the gameplay
It's an interesting thing to discuss when theres so much actually wrong in forts.
Clasically Advents had to sit under towers, not shooting for most of the battle, then "ghost" their dodges on towers. So the rankings were not fair on them - and certainly not at all reflective of how important they are, and I agree with what you said about being representative of the game play. Like all things related to PvP, admittedly this is outdated due to the power creep, and class roles being completely removed in favour of "everyone is a damager"
If you want pure damage rankings you can look to WestForts (this is very much what we wanted to avoid with the in game rankings), but adventurer tank is already the worst class to play in terms of personal reward, and adventurer damage shouldn't even be a viable playstyle... and frankly rankings aren't important.
Workers get an experience bonus from working, duellers get it from duelling, adventures get it in the totally cosmetic rankings, soldiers get nothing. All 4 need modernising.
 
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RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
So u eat 200 damage per shot in average. Meaning even less than average Tank damage..
You either didn't have any Damagers shoot/Crit you or you have very few Damagers in ur server :roll:

But yea, it's a great set still.
I have a bad feeling though.. that they will sell Union Officer within a month or two..
And I surely hope not..

I mean.. Clothing set wise Captain is just about the same (although, Attack only) but Union's weapon set is something else..
Too much Damage + too much Sector Damage, and what's worse is, both get multiplied by cheesy Damage formula.

Not to mention, Sector Damage goes for whole Sector.
We had requested that to be 'individual bonus only' several times but yea, no.
 
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RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
We have another issue that became more clear now:
Tanks vs Tanks engagements are ridiculous.

Hit ratios are.. quite low.
Same goes for Damages. Since Resistance isn't Percentage based.
And this is where most of Dodges coming from.

Now, if Tanks with not-too high-Hp had slightly more Hit ratio (without mounting) and Damages, while Damagers less of both, things would be better.

Honestly this is what tested Damage formula aimed, but had its own issues.
 

messi010

Reservist
We need a motivation system like the one with duells for adventures aswell. The motivation should have an impact on the earnd VPs as well as the chance for winning a loot-chest. Whenever you leave an adventure lobby, your motivation would decrease by 15% and if you decide to stay in the lobby and complete the adventure, it increases by 5%.
Of course we need a new outlaw set that is comparable with Wright/Union/Luc, some new items in the veteran shop and different/better drops from loot chests.

In this case, the punishment for leaving an adventure lobby will be way more significant and the motivation system should just be an addition to the timelock.
For example, if you leave the lobby two times and win the third game you gain only (100%-15%-15%) 0.7*250=175 VPs and have a chance of 0.7*0.2=0.14 to obtain a loot chest.

It is important that adv isnt just a game for high level players, so we have to protect the smaler ones more. Perhaps with a max dmg as it exist in fort battles with something around 1/5 per hit. The basic hitpoints should be 2k (right now it is 1k) and the added hitpoints per Level should be higher with a degressive function, right now it is a linear with 10 hps flat per level.
 

Lordofgods

Reservist
Well I wish there was a PvE map for Adventures.
Yeah, I Think most "Veterans" of Adventure multi-player would really like this, think it like a different kind of "farm". Could be alone or with other players

I Agree with most of things said in the topic, and honestly almost any change is welcome.


I Would just ask to try to fix the root problem of these topics, mainly the scalling. Out-dated formulas, dispropotion in power lvl (Make your revenue from "skins" and chromatic features...not ones that unbalance the game) , unfriendly environment to new players

And...when implementing changes try to paint the whole picture. When you give some love to Worker class, maybe consider evaluating the others too...and this brings me to.... ADVENTURER CLASS just do something xD (plenty of ideas above)
 
I lost interest in Adventures withing months of them coming out. The prizes got seriously cut back and so the queue time increased as many others also decided it wasn't worth the time. I have no interest in sitting around waiting for more than a few minutes to see if an adventure will start. There is no way I'm gonna sit and stare and wait half an hour, or even longer. If there was a set time to start, and an offline option like in FF that 'might' make Adventures more playable.
 
I know it doesnt have much to do with the topic but it seems as if the problems are pretty much the same on every TW server and players have really similard understanding as to what is importan/relevant and whats not. Judging by the fact that not much has been done to fix these problems and even this topic was created so late, may I ask if the high administrators/developers actually play this game at all? Im not trying to start a war or anything but its pretty funny that everyone sees the same issues that have existed for a while, some players even complained on other servers forums yet nothing has been done about it.
 

lulumcnoob

Staff Sergeant
Former Team Member
I know it doesnt have much to do with the topic but it seems as if the problems are pretty much the same on every TW server and players have really similard understanding as to what is importan/relevant and whats not. Judging by the fact that not much has been done to fix these problems and even this topic was created so late, may I ask if the high administrators/developers actually play this game at all? Im not trying to start a war or anything but its pretty funny that everyone sees the same issues that have existed for a while, some players even complained on other servers forums yet nothing has been done about it.
I believe we have people in high positions who are passionate about the game, and people who just care about cold hard short-term profit. Do they actually play the game? I know both the lead dev (whom I consider an expert in PvP) and the lead community manager (whom I consider an expert in quests and berry picking) both used to play, but I'm unsure of they still do in anything more than a testing fashion.
There's advantages to having both types in a business, and finding a good balance, but we've went too far to one side and now need to spend significant resources to make the game actually fun again.
 
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lulumcnoob

Staff Sergeant
Former Team Member
Diggo must have other messes to clean up than just bad tombola management. I know him well from the game and I'm sure he'd love to spend all his time implementing cool features and fixing the issues resulting from power creep. Apparently there's a 2nd Dev, but who knows what they get assigned.

 
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RaiderTr

Staff Sergeant
Damage:
( Weapon Damage + Buff + Sector Damage ) x ( 1 + [Leadership ÷ MaxHealth] )

Resistance:
300 × (Skill1) ÷ MaxHealth + Resistance Bonus

Hit Chance (Attack)

25 + Leadership^0.5 + Aiming^0.5 + (Skill1)^0.6 + Multiplayer Attack + Sector Attack + High Ground Bonus - Distance Penalty

Dodge Chance (Defense)
10 + Leadership^0.5 + Dodging^0.5 + (Skill1)^0.6 + Multiplayer Defence + Sector Defence + High Ground Bonus


> Skill1 refers to Hiding/Traps
> "Distance" calculated as a hypotenuse if its not a straight line to the target. And it's powered by ^1.4.
> High ground bonus (or penalty) is calculated as a percentage of your Attack/Defense value
> Defenders aren't immune to Flag penalties
Damage:
( Weapon Damage + Buff + Sector Damage ) x ( 1 + [max(0, (min(Skill1, Leadership, Aiming)^0.8 + median(Skill1, Leadership, Aiming)^0.7 + max(Skill1, Leadership, Aiming)^0.6 − |MaxHealth ÷ 10 − mean(Skill1, Leadership, Aiming)|^0.6) ÷ 400)] )

Resistance:
Temporary
100 × (Skill1 + Leadership + Dodging) ÷ MaxHealth + Resistance Bonus

Second
Resistance Bonus + [max(0, (min(Skill1, Leadership, Dodging)^0.8 + median(Skill1, Leadership, Dodging)^0.7 + max(Skill1, Leadership, Dodging)^0.6 − |MaxHealth ÷ 10 − mean(Skill1, Leadership, Dodging)|^0.6) ÷ 3)]

Now, the issue is, Damage formula doesn't have a soft cap (or "Diminishing return" as we call it) like Hit and Dodge formulas do, and becomes higher and higher by cheesily spamming Leadership (& Charisma) while getting more and more Leadership from sets, along with Sector bonuses.

Meanwhile, Resistance from the Traps & Hiding based formula stays the same. Basically because Hp penalty.
And unlike Sector Damage (& Buffs), Resistance from sets ain't multiplied or shared.

Well, things would be different if we had Percentage Resist but apparently that's not gonna happen for some reason.
And sure, Hp from sets increase, but that alone doesn't mean much other than the increase of Critical damages :D


So, Tested formulas.
They ain't as complex as they seem and while they have more relevant skills, they basically needed you to equate all for max effect.

Anyways, they provided the needed "Diminishing Returns" but there were side effects.
Like, Tanks with LOTS of Hp using a Damager set and having way too much Damage thanks to Aiming^0.8
Therefore "No-Hp" builts didn't pay off any longer.

Back then I thought the penalty part was the issue but I do believe now that Aiming (& Dodging) shouldn't have been there to begin with and neither Leadership should have messed with Resistance nor should Hiding/Traps have messed with Damage.
We didn't need "min, mean, max" thingies either.

While I understand the reasoning behind all the things above, neither of those are needed to provide Diminishing returns and to cancel out "Spam 1 ultimate Jack-of-all-Trades Skill" .
Tanks don't have such luxury anyhow. They gotta invest in Hp regardless of Sets.

So imo, Remove all those from Tested Formulas (with required coefficient/division/power changes) and we should be good.


Now, Aiming and Dodging.
To increase their importance a little bit, since they don't effect Damage or Resist and Attack & Defense at the same time like others, lets increase their Power of ^0.5 to ^0.55 in Hit & Dodge formulas

That small change is enough to make someone re-think on what to invest their APs.
Damage:
( Weapon Damage + Buff + Sector Damage ) x ( 1 + max(0, (Leadership^0.7 - |MaxHealth ÷ 10 - (Leadership)|^0.6) ÷ 120) )

Resistance:
Resistance Bonus + ( (Skill1)^0.7 − |MaxHealth ÷ 10 − (Skill1)|^0.6 ) ÷ 2

Hit Chance (Attack)
25 + Leadership^0.5 + Aiming^0.55 + (Skill1)^0.6 + Multiplayer Attack + Sector Attack + High Ground Bonus - Distance Penalty

Dodge Chance (Defense)
10 + Leadership^0.5 + Dodging^0.55 + (Skill1)^0.6 + Multiplayer Defence + Sector Defence + High Ground Bonus


These should fix/penalise; "Leadership spam" as well as "everything on Hp" while comparatively rewarding mid-Range Hp Tanks (10-15k) .
 
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*Colonel*

Private
Duels and adventures are dead. My favourite part of this game is duel, so that's what i want to speak about.

I think duel rewards should be updated.

The amount of HP that is spent on duelling part of the game is just enormous. Also, you spent 12 energy per duel and all rewards depend solely on your opponent's dueling level and his cash in the pocket (which is generally 0 on higher levels) and rarely on bounty hunting. And also, you have a possibility to get knocked out and therefore lose all your HP and energy.

That means, a player should simply sacrifice plenty of time and energy for duels, achieving rewards, which are much worse than if you just worked 10 minutes. Besides, in order to win you should have the best sets, which means spending plenty of money, bonds and maybe nuggets.

Summing up, duels are:

- highest consumption of buffs than any aspect of the game
- highest consumption of HP
- second highest consumption of energy (after 15sec jobs)
- immense spendings on duel items
- smallest returns and rewards in the game.

My proposal is:

- bonds as a reward for duel won, for example 50% chance of bond dropped if duel is won.
- assuming current experience returns, 0,5 experience multiplier if duel lost instead of 0,00
- and 1,5 experience multiplier if duel won
- Yage requirement: duelist level 250