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Items that aren't but should be upgradable

Discussion in 'Versions 2.28 - 2.39' started by Diggo11, Mar 2, 2015.

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  1. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    Please post them here.
     
  2. xShteff

    xShteff Master Sergeant Former Team Member

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    Golden Tomahawk and Howdah maybe?
     
  3. Snr Sarg

    Snr Sarg Lance Corporal

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    Who has got 3, 6 or 9 of each of them???
     
  4. torpedo3k

    torpedo3k Private

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    usable items (forjed ones).
     
  5. PaPa PoPCoRN

    PaPa PoPCoRN Lance Corporal

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    +1

    Would be fairly easy otherwise for say a long term Blacksmith to have a few Stranger's Colt laying around and get them to Class 3 which will surpass the Howdah in terms of damage as well as the additional skills points the Colt offers. Would be good to keep the urban legend of the Howdah and GT still alive.
     
  6. GuysmoFromOutaSpace

    GuysmoFromOutaSpace Reservist

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    Brown Silk Pants [item=10256000]
     
  7. Hobie

    Hobie Private First Class

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    i think the upgrades are actually not enough. 3 or an item is a lot to begin with, but then needing 9 for level 2... imagine that on a rifle for a couple of points increase? Then a level 3? Where's the appeal or must have factor? Everyone will do it with a donkey, but to spend millions for a Baker rifle upgrade for that low of an increase!?! Just doesn't seem worth it, meaning why have it? I agree you have to be careful not to go overboard and we can see the insane stats on some of the items that have code in that are level 100 plus, but in order to get there when/if available would just mean everyone would dump tombola items for quarter horses and crossbows because they could afford to upgrade those.

    also the items should remain auctionable
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  8. DanteNightroad

    DanteNightroad Reservist

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    grey wool belt
     
  9. bila

    bila Reservist

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    I think all item should be uprageable ;)
     
  10. Chief Gall

    Chief Gall Private First Class Elite Tester

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    If you make Howdah and GT upgradeable, these weapons only need level 1 to have more average damage than recent unique tombola-winner sets.
    If you want to upgrade Crafting weapons to have a stronger damage weapon than howdah/gt, you need 27 of these weapons. More than 2 years of work.

    The 2 weapons have been the strongest damage weapons for more than 3 years now except tombola winners sets.
    I think that was enough time.

    In my opinion even named weapons like McNabs' or Galls' should be stronger than GT/howdah because they are much more rare than these 3 year old weapons.
    But finding 3 of them to upgrade 1 McNab is also quite impossible.
     
  11. Hobie

    Hobie Private First Class

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    i agree. its time for howdahs and gt's to step aside, which they pretty much already have due to set bonuses anyway, although they should still be upgradable. the only legit complaints i think comes from tombola event winner sets. Those also should have some sort of possible upgrade. we're talking like 1 level, because they also cannot be tops forever. Allow the fire and Ice set to equal the new things, and the last few to bump up to the next few, but it cannot be continuous. A winner of a 2 year old set has gotten their use from it and should not be allowed dominance forever. As for what they upgrade it with... no clue. Maybe a Gt and a Howdah go into it... regardless I hope the kinks get worked out soon and this does get to .Net. Just please reduce the cost to upgrade items. Its one thing to buy 3-9-27-81-or 243 of an item, but to then pay over and over and over to upgrade them gets a bit insane. If you buy 243 precise whatever rifles, then the millions you are out should count for that bonus in damage and most players are not going to spend that amount to make a rifle that does 350 plus avg damage. If they decide to, they are already losing ap and sp stats on the shop rifles, also the set bonuses, and are stuck with the item, so they deserve the extra damage.
     
  12. Snr Sarg

    Snr Sarg Lance Corporal

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    McNabs & Galls' ??? :confused:
     
  13. Chief Gall

    Chief Gall Private First Class Elite Tester

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    [​IMG] & [​IMG]

    Very rare level 140 weapons which are much weaker than Howdah.
    I never understood why they are so weak, having a weapon like howdah as best damage weapon for three years means players were never forced to pay again for having success/ best weapon as soon as they got that howdah.

    McNabs and Galls weapon are in the game since about a year as new equip content but InnoGames did not know how to balance them.
    Now lets see how InnoGames will create a balanced system for upgrading.
     
  14. Snr Sarg

    Snr Sarg Lance Corporal

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    I see, thank you for the explanation, I should have realised they'd be the newer named weapons

    :up:
     
  15. zweig

    zweig Guest

    the price people are still paying when using these weapons is the abstinence of a set bonus which is in the case of cullens set a huge 45 aim among others.
    i rather have the 45 aim than 200 max damage.

    but i see your point, the new nameds are nothing more than collectors items and should be rebalanced.
     
  16. Hobie

    Hobie Private First Class

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    those weapons are not much weaker than howdah and GT. their max damage yes, but their avg damage are quite close. Regardless, that entire update of items was pushed out to meet the 150 upgrade as leveling with no new gear would be horrible, and then they were obsolete long before hardly any were in circulation. Most still cannot use all of them based upon level anyway. They are examples of items that should have a higher stat increase during upgrades due to their rarity, but same with howdah and Gt. just give the rare items 1 and a half times upgrade or allow rare items like InnoGames belt, howdah, gt, etc to only require 2 of an item for an upgrade
     
  17. Chief Gall

    Chief Gall Private First Class Elite Tester

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    If you know the damage formula, you shuold know that 16 avg base damage difference means a calculated avg difference of up to 42.
    Max damage= damage x1,5 (headshot) x1,75 (skill difference shooting/resistance between opponents).

    42 is quite a lot. I calculated with McNabs, difference at Galls is a little bit lower.

    Upgrading McNabs means you get an average damage of 147/148 (Upgrade system is kind of weird, sometimes it rounds up, somtimes down without a system i saw there).
    It means 3 really rare weapons combined are still weaker than Howdah.

    3x Galls combined means avg damage of 151/152, little bit more than gt.

    I think these 2 weapons should be better than gt/ howdah without any upgrade on it.

    And i do not like the possibility of only 2 weapons for upgrade. Only gt and howdah would have an advantage by that as their average damage would raise up to 165 while Manitus Set only gives 161,5.
    If you want to push a named weapon up to 165 you need in case of galls 2 upgrades.

    But we should not forget that this is only a small part of upgrade system, the system itself was created by a simple mind.
    +10% of base value for an update is a pretty worse solution.
    For damage it is strong, for skill points it is nothing.
    For rare items it is not worth the price, you could get it easier with cheap setitems or sometimes even clothes from shop in your town.
     
  18. Hobie

    Hobie Private First Class

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    you are talking max damage, aiming for the head, etc. clearly there is an advantage in that area, but those weapons were not designed to surpass howdah and Gt. Quite honestly i don't think the combination of howdah/gt, the 2.08 items, or last years tombola items were ever thought about in terms of "together" or their effects on one another and that is part of the problem, its always separate releases for each... Clearly chests in general and their value took a nose dive over the last few years due to tombola items surpassing everything in them/becoming watered down with junk. Tombolas are the cash cows and anything else is or will soon be obsolete to the new items released, we all know that. So although items like chief gal's should be more, they are not and unless an overhaul to the entire item base was done, then what's the point? Having the newer items be more powerful makes sense, but it feels a bit late for it now. Look at john adams silk pants, you have to be 150 to use them, so shouldn't they actually be worth using once you get there, but tombola sets make them dust collectors. So they need to either adjust the upgrade feature in a way that puts a fair ranking to all of the items low and high or lets move on. We all are use to those items having little value anyway and this feature clearly is not going to make everyone happy in one regard or another as we all have ideas of what should be. At the moment, get a yuma upgrade, if you have the cash a good dueling weapon and fort gun and leave the rest alone until changes are made, which will probably then all become obsolete after the next tombola anyway
     
  19. William Todd

    William Todd Reservist

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    The wool poncho I have 2 on beta and on another world I have 4 of them.
     
  20. The-Iceman

    The-Iceman Staff Sergeant

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    When the Howdas Pistol and the Golden Tomahawk were introduced they were 25% more powerful than any other weapon in the game.
    Considering the real financial cost of all the Premium Chests that were required to hopefully get either weapon, easily justified their power.
    Would the players disagreeing with them being upgraded, be so enthusiastic if they owned either of those weapons?
    What do the developers think will happen if the Howdas Pistol and the Golden Tomahawk are left to deteriorate into inferior weapons
    I'm sure that it will be the end of Premium Chests.
    The cost of obtaining then should be a major consideration in their future in The West.
    I believe that they should be upgraded by 25% allowing the damage spread to be 125/250 damage (192 average damage).
    That level of damage can already be obtained with a level 5 upgrade to a Precise Colt Navy Revolver giving a damage spread of 165/210 (187 average damage).
    In my opinion a 2000 Nuggets/Bonds or a 2 million dollar cost should be applied to obtain the 25% upgrade.
    Please give my proposal some serious consideration. :up: