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Independence Day Discussion

Uchiha Madara

Staff Sergeant
Being number 1 I have hit everyone but definitely not focused on people in work gear. These days I only duel people that have been bad and duelled alliance/town. These are people in proper gear. I have tried all forms of duelling and most of them probably resistance, I have full Harvester and Curling and all the rest.
Your argument is that when you are resist dueller you dont want any appearance, because your aim is high enough. Please try resist dueller without appearance and see how it goes. You will not win against anyone who has dodge/tactics combo. You won't hit one time. The duels will be 400 them, 0 you. I know this, I have tried this. I speak from experience.

Once again you make statements about me that could seen like insults. Please be a grown-up. I am saying in my extensive experience of duelling, your argument is not correct. No need to attack me.

These days since skills are so high you can't hit only from aim against skilled duellers. You need appearance too. Doesn't matter if you are dodge or resistance skilled. To me it doesnt make sense playing resist if you can't hit. But you obviously do.
But what if you attack a soldier with over 1100 tactics? How can you bypass that? You can't, even you if combine clothes to get the most appearance and let's say you did bypass it , you lose tons of aim/dodge , for a soldier you need a resistance set , and yes you don't really care about appearance because standing up so you can get hit actually increases your aim so in this case I will agree with @WhyN0t , appearance is useless here , having the most aim possible with a fair amount of t/s should be the only thing you should focus on. This applies not only for soldiers.
 

WhyN0t

Staff Sergeant
@Guiri
I apologize if that sounded like a personal attack, that was not my intention. Most of the people I found on the top don't know much about dueling, so I made an analogy and concluded that about you too. And I still stand by my opinion. The appearance is useful when you can break your opponent's tactics without much sacrifice. For a set of t/r appearance is not important at all, it's important that the opponent deals minimal damage, you deal maximum damage and have as much aim as possible. This reflex + appearance set can be useful only in certain combinations, aiming is essential in a duel.
I also have the experience of many thousands of duels, I always write down my skills and those of my opponents, finally, depending on the damage given, I also calculate how much t/f and vigour/impulse the opponent has. Appearance is important, but if you can really break your opponent's tactics, you don't really need reflex/toughness, you can easily play with aiming/dodging, there are plenty of great sets with this combination of skills.
 

Guiri

Private First Class
But what if you attack a soldier with over 1100 tactics? How can you bypass that? You can't, even you if combine clothes to get the most appearance and let's say you did bypass it , you lose tons of aim/dodge , for a soldier you need a resistance set , and yes you don't really care about appearance because standing up so you can get hit actually increases your aim so in this case I will agree with @WhyN0t , appearance is useless here , having the most aim possible with a fair amount of t/s should be the only thing you should focus on. This applies not only for soldiers.
if you come up against one of them you will not hit a single hit, no matter appearance nor aim. InnoGames is aware of this broken meta and it is on the list to fix. Probably on place 754 in the list. 200 extra aim wouldnt change it, nor would 200 extra app.
 

WhyN0t

Staff Sergeant
If you hit the arms, you will hit them. If you have 1000 aiming and your opponent 1000 dodging and you don't break his tactics and let's assume you hit 2 times where he dodg e and 2 times where de doesn't dodge, you'll hit him ~3 times. More than enough to win. If you don't dodge at all and aim (red areas) you'll get even more tactics (i'm not sure how much, probably 10-15%), and you will hit your opponent 3 or 4 times with the values mentioned above. He can hit you 8 times, it's irrelevant, he'll deal less than 900 dmg.
 

Take It Easy

Reservist
Sadly, sometimes experience makes you blind, cause it makes you judge what's going on now using considerations built in your mind in the past.
Nowdays, with the actual high values of skills, appearence and tactics rule the duel system, and this is the truth.
If you attack a full tac soldier using curling player set you will make 0 hits 99% of the times. If you attack using the bounty hunter set you will make at least 1 hit with a good percentage (maybe not 99%, but a good percentage).
Do the math guys.

By the way, the problem of this new set is not that it has appearence, but just that it's total amount of skills is too low, it's really better to use a combination of tailors gear.
 

WhyN0t

Staff Sergeant
Curling set is literally useless. It doesn't have enough aiming. And not enough t/r. It's simply bad. And you probably don't have extra points in aiming. I can show you my combinations for t/r. I hope it will not be considered spam, because it is a bit off topic. T/r horses and saddles are pretty old and weak, i don't like them, i only use them if i really need those extra points and i can sacrifice aiming. Most people who have 1000+ tactics don't have shooting/vigor, so you don't need too much resistance to beat them. Just enough vigor to deal maximum dmg, enough total resistance to receive minimum damage and aiming as much as possible. I can get 1030 appearance only from items without any buffs or skills in appearance. If the enemy have even more tactics, i can simply play with toughness/reflex, the enemy can't have vigor/shooting because items with tactics don't have shooting/vigor (just very few of them and they are usually bad).
I want to mention that i have 199 points in Strength, 250 points in Aiming, 50 points in dodging, 95 points in appearance and the others in construction. and i have no buffs activated. I don't have any duellers to fight with for the moment so i just build and wait for lvl 180. This update will either kill the game or will make players more active, but i am afraid it will be the first statement.
Another mention: I use vaquero's knives when i play with t/r clothes because they deal a lot of damage (up to 896 in head) and even if it doesn't offer too much skills, it gives a fair amount of aiming and great amount of damage, and these 2 are vitals for t/r playstyle if you have enough t/r. Appearance is no needed when you play with t/r because the only reason you play with t/r is because it's the only way you can win, you opponent having over 1k tactics.
 

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WhyN0t

Staff Sergeant
Yeah, luck is invovled, but you should guide yourself after the average, not after some lucky/unlucky duels. You must also keep in mind that if you aim for the head it is much harder to hit than if you aim at the arms, for example. It's harder to dodge your arms than your head, obviously.
I do have over 1500 aiming with my full aiming/dodging set and i hit 8/8 in the head some guys with 1000+ dodging. It's all about luck sometimes, but usually you should win if you calculate your duels. Breaking appearance/tactics give you a 100% bonus for your aiming, dodging am attack (with your dodge zones) doubles your dodging. Do the math and approximate.
Edit: I also miss all my shots and received 8/8 in the head while i was breaking enemy's tactics and still had a fair amount of aiming/dodging. Sometimes it's like this, but these are exceptions.
 
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BaggyBlue

Master Sergeant
Hey guys this is not the discussion section about dueling but giving feedback for Independence Day. It is very interesting but what the set can do or not is not discussed. Write suggestions for improvement and various discussions <--- here about dueling
 

WhyN0t

Staff Sergeant
Al35ul said it won't happen, but i hope they will balance all classes after this update. I hope so, but I don't think it will happen...
Something must be established. Either all classes have an advantage for pvp, or none. Theoretically at the fort they all have bonuses (except the adventurer, whose bonus is completely obsolete and poorly thought out, at the moment not only useless, sometimes counterproductive, but not bringing you any reward for the ghost rounds - 0 bonds, 0 xp etc.) . In the duel, the only advantageous class is the soldier. Maybe the duelist, but there is more of a strategic advantage, it exists when there are many duelists who can be attacked and you don't know who and when could attack you. But the soldier's bonus is always there. Double hp, +50% tactics, you get to have 1500 tactics just from items. It's simply not fair. And, ironically, making bad tactic sets affected all other classes more than the soldier. Do some balance!
 

Uchiha Madara

Staff Sergeant
Al35ul said it won't happen, but i hope they will balance all classes after this update. I hope so, but I don't think it will happen...
Something must be established. Either all classes have an advantage for pvp, or none. Theoretically at the fort they all have bonuses (except the adventurer, whose bonus is completely obsolete and poorly thought out, at the moment not only useless, sometimes counterproductive, but not bringing you any reward for the ghost rounds - 0 bonds, 0 xp etc.) . In the duel, the only advantageous class is the soldier. Maybe the duelist, but there is more of a strategic advantage, it exists when there are many duelists who can be attacked and you don't know who and when could attack you. But the soldier's bonus is always there. Double hp, +50% tactics, you get to have 1500 tactics just from items. It's simply not fair. And, ironically, making bad tactic sets affected all other classes more than the soldier. Do some balance!
It's not that it won't happen , it's more like a "We are to lazy to do it but it only takes a few clicks" , really! It's not that hard!!! Anyone who played recent speed servers have an experience of totally different classes and unique bonuses , so if you can /remove/add bonuses why not do it? Also if you think players will whine for this change, give them a ONE TIME ONLY class change , a player who started in 2009 and have an adventurer or anything else really would like to have that opportunity to change just for once , or hell , if you want to make money out of it , charge the class change like 50 euro and make it like one player can do it only once.
 

Al35ul CM

Shadow City Guardian
Former Team Member
Al35ul said it won't happen, but i hope they will balance all classes after this update. I hope so, but I don't think it will happen...
Something must be established. Either all classes have an advantage for pvp, or none. Theoretically at the fort they all have bonuses (except the adventurer, whose bonus is completely obsolete and poorly thought out, at the moment not only useless, sometimes counterproductive, but not bringing you any reward for the ghost rounds - 0 bonds, 0 xp etc.) . In the duel, the only advantageous class is the soldier. Maybe the duelist, but there is more of a strategic advantage, it exists when there are many duelists who can be attacked and you don't know who and when could attack you. But the soldier's bonus is always there. Double hp, +50% tactics, you get to have 1500 tactics just from items. It's simply not fair. And, ironically, making bad tactic sets affected all other classes more than the soldier. Do some balance!
Pretty sure I said it won't happen any time soon, but I wouldn't say that it will never happen. :P
 

BaggyBlue

Master Sergeant
Sorry, but John Bull's set is not an att set, it's a defense set. Stands defense, doesn't it have to stand for attack?
 

WhyN0t

Staff Sergeant
Defense means the chance of dodging. John bull's set is a set for attack because it has hiding instead of setting traps. Hiding is used for attack, while setting traps for defense. The value of hiding/setting traps is raised to the power of 0.6 and from here results your attack and defense (which gathers with the others from other skills and with the flat values on the items + the basic values).
 
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