Imbalance attack/def in Fort Battles

[BigNoob]

https://www.westforts.com/en13/battles/battle/6021

This is a battle that happened on 21 October 2010

120 defenders killed 140 attackers in 32 rounds

I draw your attention to the fact that at the start of the game 120 defenders vs 140 attackers were the numbers picked to have a balanced battle between defenders and attackers

so if i ask about about a battle with 138 (+18) defenders vs 132 (-8) attackers (thats the current caps) logic says attack cant win at all...

...but no!

https://www.westforts.com/en15/battles/battle/58012

this is a battle that happened a week ago where 138 defenders went from 2.6m hp to 0 hp against 132 attackers who went from 2.1m hp to 0.7m hp (a difference of "just" 1.2m damage) in 47 rounds

this battle is just an example i picked randomly, attack slaughters defense in almost every single normal battle

now of course i know the game went through a lot of changes between 2010 and 2026, this little exercise was just to show the insane effect of those changes

I also know that perfect balance is an utopia but we can definitely have something much better than what we have right now

A lot of different things come together to explain this phenomenon

But the biggest one is undoubtedly the sector bonuses, and thats the one i will be focusing into here

https://www.westforts.com/s/eqz

^This is what is happening, attackers only need 3 players wearing booster set (gringo weapons, golden ride, svyati clothes) to give 350+ sector damage bonus to 93 guns

thats 93 guns shooting with +300/+350 damage (if its a damager with 2x damage multiplier its +600/+700 damage) per shot per round

again this is not the only reason why attack slaughters defense but its definitely the main reason

So what am I here asking for?

I am here here asking for you to finally realize that while creating sets with powerful sector bonuses added an interesting layer of strategy to the fort battles, they affect attack much more than defense due to sector capacity difference, attackers occupy large sectors, in comparison, defenders occupy very small sectors.

Something needs to be done about this because this has negative consequences (players dont want to be on defense side anymore, players lose their interest for fort battles specially if they are on defense side, the thrill of unpredictability of the outcome of a fort battle is gone) to the game

You can fix this in any way you see fit however my suggestion for a fix that is at the same time successful and doesnt require a lot of dev work is to start releasing the MAIN defense sets (like cortina leaven french john astor langdon...) WITH SECTOR BONUSES (atk def dmg) (equal to dark gunslinger/svyati)

The idea is to make defense match attack in sector bonuses by making sure that those sector bonuses exist in sets that are in "every" sector in defense

While attackers can boost themselves completely with very few booster sets, defenders need sector bonuses to be present in every sector to match attack.

 

[Emma Swan]

The thing is on every world outcome depends on number of duelers, other characters as dmg, how many tanks, what characters are they, do players have premium? Do they use buff? and then the biggest pain in the ass is lovely RNG. More level, high upgrated gear and numbers you have, more RNG will play with you.

I have been suggesting following:
1. Add secondary bonus only for defenders/attackers
2. Add skill sector bonus, like +150 setting traps sector bonus (skills could stack on each other or not)
3. Release sets that are giving sector bonus to other characters, Tank set has DMG sector bonuses, Dmg set has tank sector bonuses while filled with flat bonuses for that sat (for example +20 defence, +10 attack sector bonus, +100 leadership sector bonus, +100 dmg sector bonus etc...) (edited - its because you have 95% chance to be in any kind of sector with dmg if you are tank, or with tank if you are dmg)
4. Release dmg sets with negative HP set bonus
5. Add button to add some % of HP to players, that could be enabled after particular round, depends on size of fort, like round 30 small, 35 medium, 40 big.
6. Add better bonuses for adventures and make that character justice. It could have similar bonuses to builder but half, so instead 20/40% aim/dodge make it 10/20% so they can be used as dmg or mediocre tank.

This could help, but there is still high chance RNG will be playing its own game anyway and eventually whole formula would have to be rewritten. I see low levels hiting high level players, but high level players have problem hit high level players.

Anyway, we live in 2026 so if I happened to offend some flowers here with this comment as well, well, grow up

 

[rel2]

first change adventurer so its not a useless character that nobody wants to play and then we can start talking how to balance the battles

 

[WesternCalin]

The thing is on every world outcome depends on number of duelers, other characters as dmg, how many tanks, what characters are they, do players have premium? Do they use buff? and then the biggest pain in the ass is lovely RNG. More level, high upgrated gear and numbers you have, more RNG will play with you.

I have been suggesting following:
1. Add secondary bonus only for defenders/attackers
2. Add skill sector bonus, like +150 setting traps sector bonus (skills could stack on each other or not)
3. Release sets that are giving sector bonus to other characters, Tank set has DMG sector bonuses, Dmg set has tank sector bonuses while filled with flat bonuses for that sat (for example +20 defence, +10 attack sector bonus, +100 leadership sector bonus, +100 dmg sector bonus etc...) (edited - its because you have 95% chance to be in any kind of sector with dmg if you are tank, or with tank if you are dmg)
4. Release dmg sets with negative HP set bonus
5. Add button to add some % of HP to players, that could be enabled after particular round, depends on size of fort, like round 30 small, 35 medium, 40 big.
6. Add better bonuses for adventures and make that character justice. It could have similar bonuses to builder but half, so instead 20/40% aim/dodge make it 10/20% so they can be used as dmg or mediocre tank.

This could help, but there is still high chance RNG will be playing its own game anyway and eventually whole formula would have to be rewritten. I see low levels hiting high level players, but high level players have problem hit high level players.

Anyway, we live in 2026 so if I happened to offend some flowers here with this comment as well, well, grow up

Your suggestions are changing a lot of things while the one proposed by BigNoob is much simpler to do. Defence sets should already have the buff bonuses since you cant really buff sectors while in attack you can have buff sets as well as the normal sets. Since the new damager def set is coming soon they could start experimenting with that and then in fall they can add the defence tank set.

 

[luvBB]

first change adventurer so its not a useless character that nobody wants to play and then we can start talking how to balance the battles

+
These days, the Adventurer is only used by clones/multis for farming products. It has no other benefits or perks and has become a useless class. I’ve asked many times for this class to be improved, but it seems it has been forgotten.

 

[Emma Swan]

Your suggestions are changing a lot of things while the one proposed by BigNoob is much simpler to do. Defence sets should already have the buff bonuses since you cant really buff sectors while in attack you can have buff sets as well as the normal sets. Since the new damager def set is coming soon they could start experimenting with that and then in fall they can add the defence tank set.

Of course, you.... These suggestions are just suggestions, and they could use one or two, not all of them. its like when you need a boost, you go to ice cream store and you have 20 ice creams to choose from and you choose 2. Hope its clear now.

 

[BaggyBlue]

I want my sector bonuses/blockers back for my ABT! 35% sector bonus and 95% sector blocker! The snipers need something to do too! If they want to get past me!

 

[asdf124]

https://www.westforts.com/en13/battles/battle/6021

This is a battle that happened on 21 October 2010

120 defenders killed 140 attackers in 32 rounds

I draw your attention to the fact that at the start of the game 120 defenders vs 140 attackers were the numbers picked to have a balanced battle between defenders and attackers

so if i ask about about a battle with 138 (+18) defenders vs 132 (-8) attackers (thats the current caps) logic says attack cant win at all...

...but no!

https://www.westforts.com/en15/battles/battle/58012

this is a battle that happened a week ago where 138 defenders went from 2.6m hp to 0 hp against 132 attackers who went from 2.1m hp to 0.7m hp (a difference of "just" 1.2m damage) in 47 rounds

this battle is just an example i picked randomly, attack slaughters defense in almost every single normal battle

now of course i know the game went through a lot of changes between 2010 and 2026, this little exercise was just to show the insane effect of those changes

I also know that perfect balance is an utopia but we can definitely have something much better than what we have right now

A lot of different things come together to explain this phenomenon

But the biggest one is undoubtedly the sector bonuses, and thats the one i will be focusing into here

https://www.westforts.com/s/eqz

^This is what is happening, attackers only need 3 players wearing booster set (gringo weapons, golden ride, svyati clothes) to give 350+ sector damage bonus to 93 guns

thats 93 guns shooting with +300/+350 damage (if its a damager with 2x damage multiplier its +600/+700 damage) per shot per round

again this is not the only reason why attack slaughters defense but its definitely the main reason

So what am I here asking for?

I am here here asking for you to finally realize that while creating sets with powerful sector bonuses added an interesting layer of strategy to the fort battles, they affect attack much more than defense due to sector capacity difference, attackers occupy large sectors, in comparison, defenders occupy very small sectors.

Something needs to be done about this because this has negative consequences (players dont want to be on defense side anymore, players lose their interest for fort battles specially if they are on defense side, the thrill of unpredictability of the outcome of a fort battle is gone) to the game

You can fix this in any way you see fit however my suggestion for a fix that is at the same time successful and doesnt require a lot of dev work is to start releasing the MAIN defense sets (like cortina leaven french john astor langdon...) WITH SECTOR BONUSES (atk def dmg) (equal to dark gunslinger/svyati)

The idea is to make defense match attack in sector bonuses by making sure that those sector bonuses exist in sets that are in "every" sector in defense

While attackers can boost themselves completely with very few booster sets, defenders need sector bonuses to be present in every sector to match attack.

Isn't gunslinger an all rounder set? Also, I thought that if the sector bonus is 300-350, it would be resisted if the other player who's getting hit has at least 350 resistance from cloth set, if the 2x damage bonus from leadership takes hold before the resistance is applied, that is quite dangerous.(and it shouldn't be like that)
ie 600-700 minus 350-394= 250-306

 

[I AM INEVITABLE]

https://www.westforts.com/en13/battles/battle/6021

This is a battle that happened on 21 October 2010

120 defenders killed 140 attackers in 32 rounds

I draw your attention to the fact that at the start of the game 120 defenders vs 140 attackers were the numbers picked to have a balanced battle between defenders and attackers

so if i ask about about a battle with 138 (+18) defenders vs 132 (-8) attackers (thats the current caps) logic says attack cant win at all...

...but no!

https://www.westforts.com/en15/battles/battle/58012

this is a battle that happened a week ago where 138 defenders went from 2.6m hp to 0 hp against 132 attackers who went from 2.1m hp to 0.7m hp (a difference of "just" 1.2m damage) in 47 rounds

this battle is just an example i picked randomly, attack slaughters defense in almost every single normal battle

now of course i know the game went through a lot of changes between 2010 and 2026, this little exercise was just to show the insane effect of those changes

I also know that perfect balance is an utopia but we can definitely have something much better than what we have right now

A lot of different things come together to explain this phenomenon

But the biggest one is undoubtedly the sector bonuses, and thats the one i will be focusing into here

https://www.westforts.com/s/eqz

^This is what is happening, attackers only need 3 players wearing booster set (gringo weapons, golden ride, svyati clothes) to give 350+ sector damage bonus to 93 guns

thats 93 guns shooting with +300/+350 damage (if its a damager with 2x damage multiplier its +600/+700 damage) per shot per round

again this is not the only reason why attack slaughters defense but its definitely the main reason

So what am I here asking for?

I am here here asking for you to finally realize that while creating sets with powerful sector bonuses added an interesting layer of strategy to the fort battles, they affect attack much more than defense due to sector capacity difference, attackers occupy large sectors, in comparison, defenders occupy very small sectors.

Something needs to be done about this because this has negative consequences (players dont want to be on defense side anymore, players lose their interest for fort battles specially if they are on defense side, the thrill of unpredictability of the outcome of a fort battle is gone) to the game

You can fix this in any way you see fit however my suggestion for a fix that is at the same time successful and doesnt require a lot of dev work is to start releasing the MAIN defense sets (like cortina leaven french john astor langdon...) WITH SECTOR BONUSES (atk def dmg) (equal to dark gunslinger/svyati)

The idea is to make defense match attack in sector bonuses by making sure that those sector bonuses exist in sets that are in "every" sector in defense

While attackers can boost themselves completely with very few booster sets, defenders need sector bonuses to be present in every sector to match attack.

You were the one who shoved sets with sector bonuses down our throats

I guess its one of those "oh shit" moments where you get what you asked for and turns out a complete disaster. We have seen this happen again and again here. Tragic irony. Poetic justice.

 

[BigNoob]

You were the one who shoved sets with sector bonuses down our throats

I never shoved any set down anyone's throat, but i can say i did welcome those sets, and i still do

sets with powerful sector bonuses added an interesting layer of strategy to the fort battles, they affect attack much more than defense due to sector capacity difference, attackers occupy large sectors, in comparison, defenders occupy very small sectors.

Thats still my position, sets with sector bonuses add an interesting layer of strategy to the fort battles, but they are also the main cause of the current imbalance, that doesnt mean we should cancel sets with sector bonuses or blame sets with sector bonuses, it just means we need to adapt, in life when there is a problem you have to adapt to the problem, where i am blaming the people in charge of The-West isnt for creating those sets, that was and still is a good idea, its for the fact that we are 3 years past the release of those sets and they still didnt adapt the game to the consequences brought by those sets

Your suggestions are changing a lot of things while the one proposed by BigNoob is much simpler to do. Defence sets should already have the buff bonuses since you cant really buff sectors while in attack you can have buff sets as well as the normal sets. Since the new damager def set is coming soon they could start experimenting with that and then in fall they can add the defence tank set.

Exactly. My suggestion isnt necessarily the only solution possible it just seems to be the most simple solution available.

first change adventurer so its not a useless character that nobody wants to play and then we can start talking how to balance the battles

+
These days, the Adventurer is only used by clones/multis for farming products. It has no other benefits or perks and has become a useless class. I’ve asked many times for this class to be improved, but it seems it has been forgotten.

I agree with both of you that something needs to be done about character classes but thats a topic for another discussion that i would also love to have but this is a more pressing matter

Isn't gunslinger an all rounder set?

yes but the question here isnt that there isnt sets with sector bonus and setting traps, its about the difference of efficiency of the sector bonus in defense vs attack due to the significant sector capacity difference

Also, I thought that if the sector bonus is 300-350, it would be resisted if the other player who's getting hit has at least 350 resistance from cloth set, if the 2x damage bonus from leadership takes hold before the resistance is applied, that is quite dangerous.(and it shouldn't be like that)
ie 600-700 minus 350-394= 250-306

350 sector damage bonus becomes 700 damage with a 2x damage multiplier
the resistance from gear, usually around 300, isnt enough to deal with 1400 damage

Spoiler: math

Weapon Damage + Sector Damage + Buff Damage + [(Weapon Damage + Sector Damage + Buff Damage ) × Leadership ÷ MaxHP]
500 + 350 + 100 + [(500 + 350 + 100 ) × 2000 ÷ 2000] = 1900
a 500 rifle damage with 350 sector damage 100 damage from buff like rice stew 2000 leadership and 2000 hp would have a 1900 damage output, but that 1900 damage output becomes a 1600 damage hit after 300 resistance from tank gear
resistance can only apply to the red parts of the damage formula but those red parts are equal to 1400 damage, so while 300 resistance reduces the damage of the hit by 300 damage you would need 1400 resistance from gear to fully resist that shot

 

[mxj1337]

If you want to win as defence so badly then just defend from the inside of the the fort, but it will be boring af and the game is meant to give at least some % of fun so people want to at least shot in every round and thus defend from towers/buildings even if it means losing