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Duelling Changes

Discussion in 'Polling' started by Diggo11, Oct 9, 2013.

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Do you support the new direction of duelling outlined in the Community Report #1?

Poll closed Oct 23, 2013.
  1. Yes

    47.6%
  2. No

    52.4%
  1. As expected, players jump in claiming they do the duel the weak. uh huh

    OK then, they should have no problem with players opting out of the dueling process totally. It would be run like premium does currently, InnoGames either charging nuggets, bonds or even free. This opt out lasts for 2 weeks & cannot be ended early. The two weeks could even be made longer.

    During the opt out time, the player cannot either pvp duel nor be dueled. They cannot either place nor receive bounties.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2013
  2. lulumcnoob

    lulumcnoob Sergeant Former Team Member

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    or... you know... just leave town or job ko if you don't want to be duelled and stop trying to ruin the reason so many people play this game ;)

    EDIT: also; 69 posts *giggles*
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  3. h4v4n4

    h4v4n4 Reservist

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    Areny is very bad idea..this is western, not Colosseum in Rome

    I like the old duel system most.
     
  4. HelenBack

    HelenBack Private First Class

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    Okay... So if there is a new premium created that allows people to opt out of dueling... What is going to stop a zero mot that preys on the weak from dueling a bunch of weak peeps and taking a 2 week time out to avoid getting any payback via dueling squads or bounties?

    Say it's someone that wants to duel their enemy's fort fighters... They duel them all, KO them, keep them out of the battle, then right after the last duel, throws on the premium "No Touchy" and does fort battles for the two weeks they are on time out. Maybe after those two weeks, they go out and duel them all again... then pop back on to the "No Touchy" premium.

    Nah... Leave dueling alone. It's been there since this game started. If people don't want to play within the main community of the game (Forts, Duels, Townies and Allies), then they can go without a town and do their own thing. If you are in an alliance and you have an issue with duelers... Then get your alliance's duelers to take care of them. Don't take away the main part of this game that has been there since the beginning just because some people think they should not be touched.

    As some have already stated before... If you don't want to be dueled, then you can go townless or do the job KO every 2 days. That's easy... After a battle when you have low HP... queue a dangerous job 15 seconds at a time until you're KO'd. Done... 2 Energy and you're on your way to Farmville, the West style. You have to sleep to get your HP back anyways, so use that time wisely.

    Honestly, I think the self KO'ing job KO as stated above could be considered as a form of "pushing"... Since you are doing so to gain a certain outcome... But it seems to be done by everyone and no one has been banned or punished for it... so I guess it's okay.

    In the past, some have said that anyone KO'd by any means shouldn't be able to take part in fort battles, but that could really affect fort fight attendance. People should be able to take part still... I suppose even in RL, someone knocked out could be propped up with a gun... for peeps to hide behind.
    :p
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
  5. Helen, I do not care how it affects the duelers. I only care about keeping non-dueling players from quitting the game, as does InnoGames & this is why InnoGames has proposed the arena.

    InnoGames agrees with me, not you.
     
  6. olga

    olga Master Sergeant

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    I don't think I will ever be a duelist in this game- but I dont like the idea of the arena as the only place for duels. It might be nice to have the arena in some other form.
    It could be a place where it was possible for all to duel against each other - also those from the same town- others have given ideas too. It would be great as a place where it was easier to find a duel partner - but as the sole place for duels.
    I cant wait for them to kill 0 mot duels though - sounds very good.
     
  7. lulumcnoob

    lulumcnoob Sergeant Former Team Member

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    The current system for not being dueled (job ko's) works just fine, I use it on forting worlds. There's also the chance that you can mess it up by forgetting you ko is up and be duelable for a while, which is awesome for those that ko themselves with huge bounties.
    We certainly don't need an arena where there will only be 4 or 5 people that you can duel there at any one time. Unless everyone in the arena was duelable, so some hot level 20 vs 120 action going on :D


    This is the wild west, buddy. It sounds like you would have more fun playing this


    The last part of my rant should be on 0 mot duelers. The answer is simply to get rid of dueling levels, that way anyone level 120 can duel any other level 120 (down to let's say level 99 or something). No lack of targets, no "unfair" duels that are the other persons' fault in my opinion anyway for having a huge duel level :p

    Or.. that everyone above a certain duel level (eg 300) can duel anyone else above that duel level, then there is no lack of targets for anyone.

    However, overall this expresses my feelings perfectly.
     
  8. From what I understand the reason InnoGames added dl to dueling is that the duelers were picking on the weak & InnoGames wanted to try to end that.

    I agree that zero mots were duelers response to dl, but do not ignore the problem InnoGames was trying to address.

    We are finally now back at the original problem = duelers picking on the weak

    1) You obviously have no clue at all what the "wild west" was like. They were ranchers, farmers & adventurers. People did not walk around afraid someone would shoot them in the back as in this game. You are welcome for the education.

    2) I am a pro player. I have brought maybe 30 players to the game. Over 20 of them quit due to duel camping before they got very far in the game at all.

    3) You do not know me so do not make assumptions that I am either not a dueler, or cannot handle dueling part of the game.

    4) Duelers love to brag about their duels. They post them a LOT. I go to the victim & check their dueling record. Almost every single time the victim is like 5/200. They LOVE dueling the weak. Some towns even claim to not hit workers, so even duelers know about the problem.

    5) YOU are the problem with the game. You just told me to QUIT. InnoGames should ignore all of your posts now. InnoGames & I want the game to expand with more players. You want less & less.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2013
  9. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    You seem to be pretty happy to encourage the removal of both zero motivation duelling and eventually duelling completely, by way of moving it to a secluded playpen; I wouldn't get on your high horse and preach about how bad it is to drive away players.
     
  10. No diggo, I am neutral on the arena idea. However, it is not rocket science to conclude InnoGames is trying to deal with dueling issues, especially zero mots. Neither do I want dueling removed from the game. However, I want new players to not quit the game until they become more experienced.

    It has become obvious to me over the years that duelers just do not want to have competitive duels with equals or better & this is why they hate the arena idea with a passion. They want to prey on the weak.

    I can guarantee you that if my hotel/barracks runs out, I will return to the game duelled while in sleepyhead.

    That is my only soapbox on which I stand.

    The duelers claim

    1) Go townless. Community is why players stay & love the game. Townless destroys a very important part of that community.

    2) Job KO ~ How about a clear statement from you that InnoGames no longer considers job KO a bannable exploit? Da Twista has warned several players about it on salloon chats

    Right now dl is what somewhat protects non-duelers from the duelers with zero mots the dueler's exploit. The duelers now want, as a solution, to do away with dl entirely. I guarantee you will have even more people quitting the game if you eliminate dl so that non-duelers will be camped even more often.

    Part of the new problem is the nugget sets that make a properly specced dueler unbeatable except against other specced duelers. These sets have created the very powerful ffers & duelers also. As others have pointed out on .net forums, forting is an optional sport that a player can ignore. There is no way a non-dueler can opt out of dueling currently.

    The other problem is that InnoGames has made dueling waaay too easy for the duelers. Didn't duelers originally have to travel to a town's saloon before they could duel?

    So diggo, you claim I will be driving away players if InnoGames forces duelers to only duel other duelers in an arena? And you blame ME for this? LOL
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2013
  11. As i said in the rest of my post you fix both problems at once.

    That is why you fix the DL problem for those at 120 up so they have something to do and then fix the 0 mot by resetting it to 100% every day.

    You wont want to hang about forever at real low lvl for long if you duel because your duel level will rise dramatically and youll eventually get slapped about by higher levels, exactly what 0 motives wish to avoid.

    You make it attractive for having dueling options later then there is no excuse or ability for 0 motive to stay endlessley low and get away with it for bullyings sake without the penalty of getting dueled by others that could then duel them due to having a higher DL.

    You fix the whole thing at the same time not bit by bit.
     
  12. HelenBack

    HelenBack Private First Class

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    You are trying to say you want more people to play... Yet you want to eliminate all the duelers in the game? What kind of insane logic is that? Any idea how many people would leave if they couldn't duel?
    :blink:

    So... In a nutshell... You want me to leave the game... Right?
    :hmpf:
     
  13. oh brother, perhaps glasses would help you to read my posts

     
  14. HelenBack

    HelenBack Private First Class

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    Ya... I read your posts... I'm mostly referring to this one:

    You are saying you don't care how it affects duelers... so long as the precious non-dueling players stay. So if someone (like me) enjoys dueling as it is has this arena idea forced on them... Do you really think they will stay? I'm sorry but the whole idea is horrible from a dueler's point of view. And since this game started with dueling and a lot of it... InnoGames will be abandoning a lot of their long time loyal players. Some that have been here since the beginning and have played all parts of the game.

    I do enjoy a lot of the different aspects of the game. Right now most of my toons are just questing as RL has been too busy to focus on much else. But I'm looking forward to reskilling back to dueler to have some fun. If this arena idea gets pushed through, that's the end of this game for me. I refuse to only go to fort battles and do NPC duels. That would bore me to tears.

    Also, if the ability to do zero mot dueling was removed without fixing the inevitable lack of targets in later levels... That would also bore me. Yes, something may need to be done, but this really is NOT it. I still say that most of the people whining about being dueled these days have no idea what the town raids used to be like. Duelers camped in your town for days (literally, they didn't have to move around the map at all) and the moment you woke up, you were dead. So all those who are upset by the duels these days wouldn't have lasted a week in the old west.
    :hmpf:
     
  15. This is a dueling bullying-based game. they will be fine with a tiny bit of challenge added to their game instead of sitting there, clicking on easy duels within range. Wash rinse repeat. Duelers are just about the laziest player in this game.

    "Precious" ~ Ah, so this is your real beef. You hate the fact that non-duelers play the game at all! You want them all to quit.

    Of course they will stay. Amazingly enough, they might even try other parts of the game, instead of just logging in, filling up their queue with dueling the weak, logging off.

    Oh and the other famous part of the duelers. Begging for products cuz they cannot do the jobs due to their extreme dueling speccing & also begging for free dueling gear. "Push me please, so I can duel the weak!"

    As opposed to the non-duelers day. Log in, "damn koed again. another day totally ruined", log off, quit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2013
  16. HelenBack

    HelenBack Private First Class

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    Actually, duelers need to be online to play... They move around the map dueling people. Questers do the jobs needed to complete quests which can take them all around the map but the jobs are usually done by the hour... Pure fort fighters just stand around at the fort all day waiting for the next battle. So duelers are actually the most active.
    :rolleyes:


    No on the contrary... This game needs all the different players to be here. Each type has their own purpose. Like I said before, there are good and bad duelers... Some that prey on the weak... Some that prey on those who prey on the weak. I have some great friends who never duel... I duel back on their behalf. The difference is... They do not whine about being dueled. They know it's part of the game. Instead they ask for someone else to take care of the one that is bullying them.


    Some have tried fort fighting only to be told they didn't have enough HP to be in the battles... Fort fighters have their own elite group and they stick together. There have been times when I've asked for a non-allied dueler to be given a chance to fort fight with our group and they would in turn focus on dueling our enemies... But they still were not welcomed into our battles. The "precious" fort fighters didn't want the dueler to join. So even if duelers that have been dueling up until now decide to change to fort fighting, they won't be welcomed.

    LOL Duelers beg for stuff? What about Fort Fighters who are pure HP? They're always asking for stuff. Did you forget about that?
    :whistle:

    This game started as a dueling game... Questing was going on as well... Fort fighting was brought in much later. So why join a dueling game and ask for dueling to be changed to a very limited arena? It really does not make any sense... Dueling is what this game was built on... Not fort fighting. Many duelers have played different aspects of the game... Not just dueling. Those who joined and are pure fort fighters tend to only fort fight and hate dueling. Honestly they seem to think the game revolves around them when in truth, it revolves around dueling.

    I know you seem to think all duelers are evil and prey on the weak, but that isn't the case... There are a lot of them out there that look for challenges as well as those who retaliate on behalf of those who don't duel at all. All it takes is for non-duelers to ask for help against a bullying dueler... You'd be surprised how many duelers will help out with taking the bully down.
    :cool:
     
  17. oh yes helen let's take a trip in the wayback machine back to when men were men <rollseyes> duelers used stone knives & bearskins, not the uber weapons, nugget sets & buffs like today.

    There is no comparison between your imaginary golden age of the west & today. duelers are waaay more powerful & experienced, unlike the noobs of the past.
     
  18. lulumcnoob

    lulumcnoob Sergeant Former Team Member

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    We're just going round in circles here, I could swear I saw this exact same argument 3 days ago.

    Both sides have valid points I'm sure, but I don't particularly care for anything that will change duelling to make it less fun, such as confining us to a tiny corner on the map with 4 people we can duel.
    And like I've said many times already, job ko's are there for a reason BBJ ;)
     
  19. killado

    killado Staff Sergeant

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    That, most of the times, is impossible... since the bully is always below duel level 300. Only the other bullies can fight him... but they are all on the same cities with pacts between them. Even for taking the bounties they make combined duels between them to remove there heads from the sticks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  20. olga

    olga Master Sergeant

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    I have heard a few saying that it cost a lot of energy - to keep the motivation down- that is just not true.

    Duels never realy interested me- but I am currently playing on a server where I do the 2 duels daily and the 3 NPC duels to get max daily bonds. I would have expected that I at this level could start each day at 100 motivation- but no- my max motivation if I dont use buffs is 12. If I want to have it higher - I need wait several days - or use buffs.

    Currently the motivation drops too fast - and takes to long to get up. It is far too easy to be a 0 mot duellist.