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Duel Motivation Split II

Discussion in 'Polling' started by Diggo11, Jan 24, 2015.

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Should separated player and NPC duel motivation be recombined?

Poll closed Feb 7, 2015.
  1. Yes

    46.6%
  2. No

    53.4%
  1. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    Votes are PUBLIC, you can only select ONE option.
     
  2. The-Iceman

    The-Iceman Staff Sergeant

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    If it is recombined, won't ZMD's use it to reduce their duel motivation to gain an advantage?
     
  3. Certainly cant speak for everyone, but back when we could lower with NPC's , we spent a lot more time dueling higher level players, each other, and bounty hunting. No need to attack the lowest level player(s) we can hit 4-5 times per day.
     
  4. bugeyes10

    bugeyes10 Reservist

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    The reason it was split in the first place is because InnoGames thought that it would eliminate ZMD. Well, it didn't work. Now to lower my motivation I duel people who have never dueled in their life because they have low dueling levels which does' give me xp. I spend more time in easy duels that I know I will win rather than actually dueling people who will challenge me. In short, I spend more time picking on people than I do actually dueling
     
  5. Snr Sarg

    Snr Sarg Lance Corporal

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    Anybody seriously think that being able to reduce motivation on NPCs will make ANY difference to low level ZMDs??

    LOL, sure they're gonna stop hitting easy targets and duel each other.

    Not!

    They'll all still be stat padding with easy targets, make no mistake, don't make it easier for them!
     
  6. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    Considering a 2/3 majority indicated that it actually did result in more duels against them in the previous poll, I do seriously think it will reverse this effect, yes :p Do I think it will eliminate duels against workers? Absolutely not; that's a different set of goal posts.
     
  7. Chief Gall

    Chief Gall Private First Class Elite Tester

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    This is the only truth about this poll.

    In my opinion this poll comes close to arguments against job KO.
    Job-KO provided Duel-KO, some people did not like that because jobs don't belong to duels.
    You should admit that NPC-Duels are another feature, too. They do not belong to pvp-duels (It was an exploit!).

    You could say the first ones are both KOs and the other ones are both duels.
    Come up with better ideas that do not mess up so much.

    If you want to destroy a play style then destroy the one that costs mosts new players.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
  8. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    The difference between PvP and PvE duelling is clearly far less significant than the difference between jobs and duels; a more apt comparison would be the difference between 15s and 1h jobs. In any case, I'm a pragmatist: split duelling motivation harms workers, it should go. As I said in the discussion thread on the update too, job KO is also harmful to others that don't use it (read: primarily new players), yet another reason the exploit should go.
     
  9. antjest

    antjest Reservist

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    Duel KO is also harmful, specially when someone on premium loses 150energy. Why don't you also eliminate duel KO and increase money gained by the duel winner and looser keeps the energy to continue working ?
     
  10. Snr Sarg

    Snr Sarg Lance Corporal

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    It wasn't exactly a scientific poll was it? It was based purely on people's anecdotal memory, and I'll wager they were mostly wrong!

    Do you actually have any proof of this, or is it just your personal observation?

    I don't think it harms workers AT ALL, because all those ZMDs hitting them would be hitting them regardless, reducing motivation with NPC duels just made it even easier for them.

    Why remove zero motivation, cap it at 3%, then give them the easy way out back again? Just too stupid for words :mad:
     
  11. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    If people took the same hammering I copped as soon as the change came in, I think it would be pretty hard to forget ;)

    And actually Sarg, that's not true: NPC duels replace PvP duels. Not all of them of course, but they take energy and they lowered duel motivation; it's about as simple as that. They also allow zero motivation duellers to take breaks from duelling, which I'm sure their victims wouldn't mind. There are arguments to be had though about adjusting their energy cost against their motivation decrease.

    My same worker respecced to a zero motivation dueller for the purposes of revenge. It certainly would have been nice if I could have used NPC duels to focus on them instead of wasting time keeping my motivation down on defenceless others, so I didn't rise above my true targets' range.
     
  12. I had to up my PVP and especially my low level hits when motivation was split. I would have much preferred to still be able to quest and work jobs, then lower motivation by NPC duels. Unfortunately people seem to be dead set against me taking a break from dueling so I guess I will duel more. What took 4-6 NPC duels now takes at least 3-4 duels on the lowest level people I can find every time I log in. It leaves no time for the rest of the game, and dueling is the most important part of the game to myself and many others. Then if I do a couple jobs, instead of whacking a couple NPC's I've got to go out and kill a couple more low level players...

    Snr Sarg... Start asking around to lower level players if they have been hit more since the split or before the split. You'll soon find the truth of it is exactly what diggo says...
     
  13. Chief Gall

    Chief Gall Private First Class Elite Tester

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    Why do you even want to work? You say duels are your most important part for you.

    Low level players will be dueled anyway in both systems. The difference of the 2 systems is just that in current system zero mots have to be more active to hold their dl down.
    The old system was much more comfortable for zero mots but not for all other players as they had to hope for mercy in zero mots heart when he was standing next beside him, too. Zero mot would have dueled you then.
    Zero mots do not care which player they duel, they duel every player except players they might lose against.
    So difference of being hit in both systems is very low because you have not just 1 but much more zero mots and in both systems. This number of zero mots is enough to say that at least one of them will duel and knock out you every 1st - 3rd day after last KO.

    If you want to avoid this kind of harassment why not give victims opportunities to be save by their purpose? ->Job KO was 1 opportunity.
    Now You want to take Job-KO away, which results in a much more annoying play style and getting duel ko by yourself is much harder than job ko.
    Therefore, you want to make the game easier for zero mots and trust in these players mercy not to duel low level?

    The group of zero mots might be an active one and they do herass a lot of people but it is a small group too, compared to all other play styles.
    Not even 10% of all west players are zero mots so why do you want a comfortable west for them and do not care about the others or want to give others at least a much worse solution?
     
  14. Snr Sarg

    Snr Sarg Lance Corporal

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    I am a low level player on some worlds, and it make zero difference to me, ZMDs are, in the main (not all of you perhaps) cowardly duelers that will only attack easy targets for stat padding, they were dueling low levels constantly before duel motivation was split too.

    As for asking around, that's not very scientific is it? Show me hard facts to show there have been more victims of cowardly duelers since the motivation was split, I'll bet you can't
     
  15. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    Just because you refuse to believe what 2/3 of people in this very forum said was true, that doesn't make it untrue. The idea that improving a problem is a waste of time unless it can be resolved completely is folly. People die anyway, so let's close down all hospitals; the difference of the two systems is just that currently we must waste money paying nurses and doctors. If you vote no in spite then so be it, it's a valid emotion; just be aware that your determination is making the game needlessly worse for everyone.
     
  16. Snr Sarg

    Snr Sarg Lance Corporal

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    Funny, because more than 50% of people on this poll, at the time of wroting, disagree with you.
     
  17. olga

    olga Master Sergeant

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    It seems we did not vote as we were supposed to . Sorry about that:cool:

    Is that why there was no vote on the job KO, because tjere you alredy know that most would want to keep it.:whistle:
     
  18. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    Two very different questions Sarg, what people think and what people want. It doesn't take a great deal of wisdom to see that; why do you think I had the foresight to open two separate polls olga? ;)

    A clear majority indicating that split duel motivation harms workers and a roughly even split on actually fixing that was about what I expected. In any event, it's all academic – I would have stopped at #1 were this some kind of fixing exercise and not your regular "no promises, no implications" poll here :p
     
  19. Rastlos

    Rastlos Private First Class

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    Wow, 10 players are a clear majority?
    Open speaking, what validity/expressiveness does polls have if less than 100 people participate? Hopefully none to introduce changings on live worlds depending on results of such polls of the beta.
     
  20. killado

    killado Staff Sergeant

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    All the 0 motivation duellers are just bullies. That´s a fact. (there is another thing but if i talk about it i can get banned because it´s a thing that cannot be talked outside the support tickets)

    They just stay there so they can get 100000 duels with 99999 wins and 80000 ko so they can brag about that. Nothing more...

    The only thing with the current system is that it will take 10 minutes to take out the motivation increase that we receive everyday. With them joined, it would only take 4 seconds. It would use more energy but it was much faster... and energy can be replenished pretty easy.

    So if there is a low value (hope it raises for 25%) that cannot be lower, the division is not needed. The bullies will have the same path but will get 1000 times more experience from the same amount of human duels. And it get more energy used.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015