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Day of the Dead 2021 Discussion

Al35ul CM

Shadow City Guardian
Former Team Member
Sorry, it's not about the Day of the Dead event. It is about our suggestions where we had suggested and it is said that it was forwarded whether what is perhaps accepted or discarded?
This has also been previously explained. All suggestions are passed on. If we can release any information on the decision behind suggestion X, then this will be posted here on the forum. In most situations, the decision behind most suggestions becomes internal information. Of course, whenever there is information to release, we will do so.
 
sure doesn't FEEL like one card is death and two have rewards to me,
cause I get death more than 33% of the time on the first card.
and if I didn't get it on the first, most likely will get it on the second tier at a higher than 33% as well.
As for higher levels, I don't know as I've never been past level 3,
If I've made it to that point, I take what is offered even if I have duplicates.
Which is why I will NEVER bribe or spend nuggets on this losing game.
 

Jeremiah Johnson

Private First Class
sure doesn't FEEL like one card is death and two have rewards to me,
cause I get death more than 33% of the time on the first card.
and if I didn't get it on the first, most likely will get it on the second tier at a higher than 33% as well.
As for higher levels, I don't know as I've never been past level 3,
If I've made it to that point, I take what is offered even if I have duplicates.
Which is why I will NEVER bribe or spend nuggets on this losing game.

Try using this:
ROLL D3
and use each result to pick a card where 1=far left card. The roller helps me focus on the factual probabilities and reject intuition (and the frustration that comes when you lose and think you have "bad intuition").
 

rennokki

Reservist
who cares?
they do what they want anyways
and any % they give should not been taken as the truth
cause more than often the stats are way off the %

Slightly off-topic: at this point, I got fed up after ~ 2 months of playing and I wonder if building a game that resembles the-west and is community-driven would be worth investing my time as a full-stack web dev.

Day of the Dead (DotD) Card Game - Statistically probability, expense, and disclosure

@Al35ul CM I've been wondering about these issues this year. InnoGames made a step in the right direction by listing the RNG probabliities for not only what rewards you can get for any given "spin" for any given tombola action (or even the Traveling Fair games). That is a truly consumer-facing gesture.

However, what is still problematic for the DotD card game is there is no reporting of the correlation of the general probability of each tier, its rewards, and the nuggets (and incurring the cost thereof) involved. Naturally, it's simply statistical analysis to compute that info. Sadly, the "carrot on the stick" of an overpowered set like J.Cortina tends to blind the general user from the financial commitment of trying for that chest drop.

To clarify, I'm not implying any idea that the player "consumer" is obligated to spend a dime. However, the same can be said of a lever on a slot machine with a "$1,000,000 Jackpot" sign attached to the top of the machine. Without having a semblance of the financial baselines involved with DotD, the aura of the game is difficult to dissociate from true gambling in the sense that not being even somewhat transparent with associating the odds with a baseline necessity of nuggets required, on average, per the statistical math.

I'm not a statistician but you'd certainly have to have acumen with that discipline to even begin to map out the financial baselines I'm referring to in this post. Here's what I would like to see presented (but more accurately):

To get this itemBaseline probability; mean nuggets required per attemptTotal cost to address a reasonable chance to drop
Tier III - Ron's shirt1 in 3 x3 (1/9) + 12% drop chance; 150 Nuggets (?)$3USD* x 9 = $27USD
Tier IV - Ron's pants1 in 3 X4 (1/12) + 14% drop chance; 400 Nuggets (?)$8USD* X 12 = $96USD
Tier V - J.Cortina chest1 in 3 x5 (1/15) + 5.9% drop chance (Death Chest) + 16.67% chance; 1000 Nuggets (???)$20USD* x 15 = $300USD

*Based on the $79.99USD purchase of 4000 nuggets

Again, this table is totally spitballing as I really don't know the math especially to include at Tier V that there are three components of probability versus the carrot on the stick that is the J.Cortina or G.Cortez chest.

I've have long surrendered to the idea that DotD closely following the opening of a new EN world is a major scheduled Q4 push for this game property. I'm not challenging that whatsoever. Instead I'm inquiring with the premise that InnoGames already demonstrated good faith with publishing drop probabilities.

So, again, having more transparency with the expenses would be more consumer-facing and steps away from an appearance of gambling. Yes, what I'm suggesting does fall under the due diligence of the consumer, yet the complex probability of dropping a "carrot" like J.Cortina and dangling a carrot like that in front of the consumer tends to eliminate due diligence.

I'm willing to wager that InnoGames stands to improve Q4 intake with The West with more DotD transparency.

theydidthemath. The stats that InnoGames display might be different from the truth. Although in theory, the probabilities always tend to the chance values the more times dices are being thrown. So, what you see in twcalc or some tool are just approximates, and it really depends on the sample size. However, I do not exclude these calculations. In theory, $300 USD can only give you a chance to getting Cortina.

And regarding these events resembling gambling, remember how EA got fined for saying "no bro our loot boxes are not gambling" as their game was released as PEGI 3 yet the Dutch court said it's actually gambling because they let the users buy, no matter the age. This might as well apply to The-West as well, more to the fact that age consent for the game is 16 and gambling is permitted only for 18+ (you can check in the terms, line 2.2).
 

Jeremiah Johnson

Private First Class
Slightly off-topic: at this point, I got fed up after ~ 2 months of playing and I wonder if building a game that resembles the-west and is community-driven would be worth investing my time as a full-stack web dev.

theydidthemath. The stats that InnoGames display might be different from the truth. Although in theory, the probabilities always tend to the chance values the more times dices are being thrown. So, what you see in twcalc or some tool are just approximates, and it really depends on the sample size. However, I do not exclude these calculations. In theory, $300 USD can only give you a chance to getting Cortina.

And regarding these events resembling gambling, remember how EA got fined for saying "no bro our loot boxes are not gambling" as their game was released as PEGI 3 yet the Dutch court said it's actually gambling because they let the users buy, no matter the age. This might as well apply to The-West as well, more to the fact that age consent for the game is 16 and gambling is permitted only for 18+ (you can check in the terms, line 2.2).

At this point, honestly, I am more in the realm of "why does anyone care about this game anymore". My previous post before the last one I made here was censored because it was, quite frankly, too honest of a critique for the CM to handle. Now he's outright ignoring my points (see the post you responded to).

I hate to say it but I'm actually a starting to see IceBucket's point of view. Unless what you inquire about here can be responded to with a quick copy/paste canned responses from the approved InnoGames List_o_how_to_brush_off_users.doc© like "As soon as more information will be available, I will post it" then again, you be either ignored or censored. If you can't be brushed off with non-accountable statements, you shouldn't be posting. That of course begs the question "What is the point of this forum at all"? I suppose it's for setting up what I mention in my next point.

I've come to realize as well that the real remaining endearing novelty of the game - the start of a new world - has been fully ... by InnoGames. The contests that were introduced like "first to level 100" endorse that, fully. Why? Well, any chance of winning that requires a full G.Cortez set. How did you get that set? Paying in excess of $500USD to circumvent the odds to get the set as soon as DotD started. It's so blatant now that you PAY TO WIN this game, literally.

It's so infuriating and actually disgusting when one thinks back to 2009-2010. Yes, that was a decade ago and ohhhhh how much difference 10 years can make.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Al35ul CM

Shadow City Guardian
Former Team Member
At this point, honestly, I am more in the realm of "why does anyone care about this game anymore". My previous post before the last one I made here was censored because it was, quite frankly, too honest of a critique for the CM to handle. Now he's outright ignoring my points (see the post you responded to).
No posts are being ignored. I have read the post in question but I could not see how I could answer it. Not all posts require an answer.

I hate to say it but I'm actually a starting to see IceBucket's point of view. Unless what you inquire about here can be responded to with a quick copy/paste canned responses from the approved InnoGames List_o_how_to_brush_off_users.doc© like "As soon as more information will be available, I will post it" then again, you be either ignored or censored. If you can't be brushed off with non-accountable statements, you shouldn't be posting. That of course begs the question "What is the point of this forum at all"? I suppose it's for setting up what I mention in my next point.
I can confidently say that all CMs will answer all questions posted on their forums to the best of their abilities, and I can say that we have done so (and will keep doing so) here on the beta. As this is the beta (i.e. where feature/updates are implemented first), there will, of course, be some delays in providing some information.
 

Jeremiah Johnson

Private First Class
No posts are being ignored. I have read the post in question but I could not see how I could answer it. Not all posts require an answer.

You answer it by saying "Thank you for your inquiry but I cannot respond adequately". You only responded thusly because I called you out on it. Ergo, you ignored the post.

Also, thanks for censoring my last post.

Please delete my profile form this useless forum that is essentially a smoke screen. I'm done.
 

rennokki

Reservist
At this point, honestly, I am more in the realm of "why does anyone care about this game anymore". My previous post before the last one I made here was censored because it was, quite frankly, too honest of a critique for the CM to handle. Now he's outright ignoring my points (see the post you responded to).

I hate to say it but I'm actually a starting to see IceBucket's point of view. Unless what you inquire about here can be responded to with a quick copy/paste canned responses from the approved InnoGames List_o_how_to_brush_off_users.doc© like "As soon as more information will be available, I will post it" then again, you be either ignored or censored. If you can't be brushed off with non-accountable statements, you shouldn't be posting. That of course begs the question "What is the point of this forum at all"? I suppose it's for setting up what I mention in my next point.

I've come to realize as well that the real remaining endearing novelty of the game - the start of a new world - has been fully ... by InnoGames. The contests that were introduced like "first to level 100" endorse that, fully. Why? Well, any chance of winning that requires a full G.Cortez set. How did you get that set? Paying in excess of $500USD to circumvent the odds to get the set as soon as DotD started. It's so blatant now that you PAY TO WIN this game, literally.

It's so infuriating and actually disgusting when one thinks back to 2009-2010. Yes, that was a decade ago and ohhhhh how much difference 10 years can make.

I have literally busted my lung for laughing so much last night with a friend of mine over how forts are going when you got a Cortina set. It's basically my profile picture. You literally camp the forts. You just randomly login throughout the day to move from fort to fort and fight offline. It's hotel meta v2. You basically sleep at forts, that's it.

I don't really care about censorship. I mean, we argue here like idiots making a point and InnoGames laughs in gold nuggets on the other side. That friend of mine also gave me the wiki link with the changelog up to 2.41. It seems like 2.41 is the last documented one before the forum changelogs. You can clearly see that it had more progress from 2 to 2.41 than from 2.41 to the latest patch, let's not mention how big the changelog texts are like 2.26. Busted.
 
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