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Community Report #3: Duel Protection Discussion

ChickenMcGuy

Staff Sergeant
We had a long discussion about how to save players from being dueled if they don't want to be dueled without taking away too many targets of the duelists who chose this direction for their character development. With this concept all players could be dueled, no matter if they belong to a town or not. For us this is a good step because we don't want players who are member of a town to have a disadvantage that townless players don't have. Also we thought it might be worth a try to let players not only duel in a specific duel level range but on top of that, all players that have a higher dueling level.
Townless get disadvantage, because is someone attacked, now can't dueled back, because need town and mortician. This need change. Townless lifestyle have got many disadvantage, and now take only one good advantage. Bodyguard is okay, but if we thinking new servers, after started, town founding need 8 hours, mortician 1 hour, about 9-10 hours, I can duel everyone, with greenhorn speed bonus... Nice chaotic...
Returning to duel, if someone challenged me, and I haven't got town, but I want revenge, give a chance.
Bodyguard is okay, should be added tutorial or quest on low lvl.
 

olga

Master Sergeant
Duel protection

We had a long discussion about how to save players from being dueled if they don't want to be dueled without taking away too many targets of the duelists who chose this direction for their character development. With this concept all players could be dueled, no matter if they belong to a town or not. For us this is a good step because we don't want players who are member of a town to have a disadvantage that townless players don't have. Also we thought it might be worth a try to let players not only duel in a specific duel level range but on top of that, all players that have a higher dueling level. So how can players protect themselves from being dueled? Dueling is an important part of The West and also something that players should not be able to avoid without a noticeable disadvantage. We chose the Bodyguard system that many players have suggested already as well as a solution for duel protection. Bodyguards can be hired only by town members and will fight all duels instead of your character. As long as your character is under the protection of the bodyguard you won't lose any HP from duels. The bodyguards stats are a mirror of your stats and equipment so that he will always be exactly as strong as your own character. Activating the bodyguard brings a couple of disadvantages though. First, he will take 25% of all the money you make while playing as a fee. Furthermore, the money you lose for paying the bodyguard has to be at least $500 a week. This means that you have to play actively that you make at least $2000 a week in order to be able to pay the bodyguard (All numbers are of course just examples and not final yet). Also the bodyguard would go away and be blocked for a few weeks if you start a duel while the bodyguard is active.

While we do like the general idea, we did not go further with it because dueling the bodyguard of a player is a very different gameplay as dueling the player and it would take away some strategic teamwork like raiding a town and just KOing everyone.
I hate this idea - and see no real protection- I prefer it as it is now. I was looking forward to some way to stop those 0 mot duellist chasing players at lower levels or with no duel skills and no interest in duels.

What is the benefit of a bodyguard who has just as bad skills as you have.
I will prefer to just KO myself.
Yes duels are a part of this game - but some has skills for building- why they choose that (me included) is a bigger and bigger mystery to me- they get close to nothing out of it - and has to be a punching ball to duellists and now has to pay taxes to get help.:blink: When are you putting taxes on duellist when they do not do their quests and don't do jobs ?;) It is all a part of the game- but please let us chose to do the parts we like best.:up:
 

DonPatch

Guest
so this change means I will HAVE to become a dueler if I don't want to be beaten all the time, good job :up:
 

lulumcnoob

Sergeant
Former Team Member
Speaking as a dueller, i'm not a huge fan of this bodyguard idea. Speaking as a fort fighter, i'm also not a huge fan of this. The ways that you can avoid duelling are pretty fine the way they are now, the only thing that needs to be changed is that you should be duellable if you have a bounty, even if you job ko. In my opinion, of course. :)
 

That Cat

Guest
What does "25% of the money you make" mean exactly? Only job wages? Market sales? Sales to mobile trader? Quest rewards?

Just out of curiosity, since I'll just keep knocking myself out on jobs no matter what. 1 of the 2 reasons I put myself into protection is to not lose any money.
 

The Morrigan

Guest
the only thing that needs to be changed is that you should be duellable if you have a bounty, even if you job ko .
agree with " lulumcnoob" on that. :up:

I play both a "town less" trader & dueler. & I animosity this proposed idea I don't wanna be anyone bodyguard ( my dueler). Or do i want pay someone to fight for me ( my trader).

That my two cents even though they don't mean a dime :whistle:
 

Mohikan

Reservist
In duel system we have too much luck. You chould add more skills witch will take part in duel system (now only aim and dodge). You should create a new skills for duels, I mean that we should get on every lvl for example 2 points and then we will put it in some extra skills only for duels. There will be a lot of chioses and a lot of duel builds.

Peace
 

Diggo11

The West Team
Dev Team
It reminds me of a very similar idea proposed a long while ago, after a poll was struck down for a 15 minute hotel cooldown to fight campers. (Aka the good ol' days hehe.)

The gist was you could hire a bodyguard for 8 hours at a time, which would adopt your skill and attribute count to be distributed amongst duel skills. (Iirc there were about four options to choose from: high aim/damage skills, high resistance skills, high dodging skills and a balanced option.) A fee would be paid, about an hours wages, then you'd be protected until time was up or the bodyguard was defeated. There were a few caveats though, for instance the worker would not gain xp if the bodyguard won but would lose cash when the bodyguard lost, and of course you're restricted from duelling for a couple of days after.

Obviously it never happened; the idea never went viral amongst the community, but the idea was well received amongst those who give feedback. Funny the people on each end have swapped hehe.
 

henry j.

Reservist
If we get to be duelled while townless then make it so i can do fortfights being townless also. If one thing no longer needs a town to do it then the other thing also.
 

carolos

Guest
In my opinion, duelling is good as it is.Duellers have a lot of targets already.This idea kinda forces duels to everyone, without letting choose if they want to be involved in it or not.Dueling is a part of the game, as well as building, fort fighting, doing quests, etc. But none of these should be forced to anyone!

Just my poor opinion
 

DeletedUser2652

Guest
In my opinion the biggest problem lies with the townless players as targets, not so much with the taking away of job-KO's or the Bodyguard-system.

The most obvious objections have allready been named by others in this thread:
- Townless players are targets, but can't duel back
- Townless players can't get bodyguards (If I read the report right?)

Which brings me to my point: players choose to be Townless for a reason. Other players choose to be builders, choose to be duellers, choose to be questers and choose to be fortfighters.

So in short you could say this game is about choices.
When make targets of the Townless players, the choice of not being able to duel wil be taken away. In stronger words one might even say you force them to duel.

But this is only one side of the coin, now let's look at the other side.

What gains are there to be had from making Townless players a target?

Normal duellers have higher duelling levels, so they wouldn't gain a lot of targets.

Zero-motivation duellers on the other hand would gain a lot of new targets (with a good portion choosing to be Townless because of avoiding ZM-duelling).

Which would make Zero-motivation-duelling an even bigger problem. One that was on the agenda of Community report #1 http://forum.beta.the-west.net/showthread.php?t=2225. (By the way any progress on that problem?)

So if you scratch the idea of making targets out of Townless players, I think it would all work out :up:
 

killado

Staff Sergeant
There is an easy way to make people duel and let them duel on whatever they like:
Make boundaries on the experience on each duel.

Each duel win will get you a minimal of 100 duel experience and 100 experience. And each duel win will get you 500 duel experience and 1500 experience.

The motivation just counts for raising the value of experience to the maximum value it would get.

That way, people can still make 20000 duels and get 19940 wins... but they will start to face those real duelers that just don´t pray on the weaker players.
And the weaker duelers will be out of there range easily.

That would throw out the 0 motivation duelers that make near 1000 duels per month and get 999 wins for 1000 experience points and 300 duel points.

Easy to do and most of the people will like it. Only the 0 motivation duelers at level 70 to 150 of experience will hate it.
 
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The-Iceman

Staff Sergeant
There is an easy way to make people duel and let them duel on whatever they like:
Make boundaries on the experience on each duel.

Each duel win will get you a minimal of 100 duel experience and 100 experience. And each duel win will get you 500 duel experience and 1500 experience.

The motivation just counts for raising the value of experience to the maximum value it would get.

That way, people can still make 20000 duels and get 19940 wins... but they will start to face those real duelers that just don´t pray on the weaker players.
And the weaker duelers will be out of there range easily.

That would throw out the 0 motivation duelers that make near 1000 duels per month and get 999 wins for 1000 experience points and 300 duel points.

Easy to do and most of the people will like it. Only the 0 motivation duelers at level 70 to 150 of experience will hate it.
I have to agree with Killado 100%
This recommendation solves the zero mot dueling problem and gives everyone an opportunity to eventually pay then a visit on a level playing field
 

killado

Staff Sergeant
The 1500 experience and 500 duel experience would be the maximum that people could get from each duel.
That way the duels would still be a great play and people would go with them without a problem.

And, on another point, it would be great to raise the energy needed for the 15seg job to 3 instead of 2. (that is another way to super rush to higher levels... even that people can pay the refills, it will get more money to InnoGames and will make a small stop to the ones that rush through the levels using the 15seg jobs)
Or make it like it was a far time away: 15seg 5 energy, 10 minutes 10 energy and 1h 15 energy. (the construction stay with the 12 has a replacement for the price we pay to build something)
Since the 2.08 will bring new jobs and new levels, the team could change the values of the energy needed.
 
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Meatballs

Guest
And, on another point, it would be great to raise the energy needed for the 15seg job to 3 instead of 2. (that is another way to super rush to higher levels... even that people can pay the refills, it will get more money to InnoGames and will make a small stop to the ones that rush through the levels using the 15seg jobs)
Or make it like it was a far time away: 15seg 5 energy, 10 minutes 10 energy and 1h 15 energy. (the construction stay with the 12 has a replacement for the price we pay to build something)
Since the 2.08 will bring new jobs and new levels, the team could change the values of the energy needed.
That is a BIG NO for me.
 

kevkill

Guest
This idea is really bad.
Leave the townless people alone, we never store cash on the bank because it costs too much.
And now you are going to let those duellers attack us??