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Community report #1 discussion

Discussion in 'Version 2.06' started by Leones, Oct 4, 2013.

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  1. Leones

    Leones The West Team

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  2. The-Iceman

    The-Iceman Staff Sergeant

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    I find the idea of changing the friendship system to be absolutely awful
    Why change something that isn't broken?
    I find the new friendsbar invasive and cumbersome and difficult to navigate
    It also doesn't list all my friends
    Please go back to the previous system, that was excellent in comparison

     
  3. olga

    olga Master Sergeant

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    I totally agree. I fell lost and friendless now - the new way is useless for me.
    You could just as well have removed the feature completely.

    I have too many friends on my list and now I have to navigate through a list instead of easily scrolling up and down. Before it did not take up any room - now it fills half the screen.

    I just hope to find who ever I need to talk to in the chat list. It is a bit sad.:(

    I cant even use the list that we used to have in the friendship menu :( It is gone.

    Please restore it as it was - it worked fine.:)
     
  4. killado

    killado Staff Sergeant

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    Well at least give us the option to deactivate that window that goes up when a friend login.

    That window is a very slowdown problem for "older" computers.
     
  5. HelenBack

    HelenBack Private First Class

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    Not only is the Friends Bar intrusive and cumbersome, but it also doesn't work. I was looking for a few friends yesterday and they didn't show as online... I found out today that they were also looking for me at the same time, but I showed as offline. Both of us were online... and showing as offline.

    But please don't fix the new version of the Friends Bar... Rip it out and give us the old one back.
    :P


    Oh HELL NO!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

    Do you really want to kill the game? If so, you're on the right track... This game was built on dueling... Not fort fighting... DUELING!!!!!

    It's even in your advertising on the home page:
    "Discover new lands and experience exciting adventures and duels!
    The West awaits!"

    Do you see fort fighting? I don't see no stinkin' fort fighting!!!
    :mad:

    I've dueled a lot... I'm currently questing in most worlds... I get dueled and lose... SO WHAT? It's part of the game! If it wasn't for dueling, this game wouldn't have evolved... People would have gotten bored of doing jobs and questing. Yes, people who don't duel get dueled... but that is part of the game. Everyone has their role to play... There are good and bad peeps. Why in the world would you want to eliminate a HUGE part of the game?
    :mad:

    If you go this route... Duelers can no longer try to take out enemy fort fighters... Duelers will be confined to a few people to duel and only if they happen to be in the same dueling area at the same time. You may as well neuter every single dueler that is playing... What happens after a pet is neutered? They don't play as much anymore... Soon they will completely lose interest and won't play at all. Put down the scissors InnoGames... Step away... And leave dueling alone!!!!
    :mad:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2013
  6. killado

    killado Staff Sergeant

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    I don´t like the only place for duels... but i love the smash of those ugly 0 experience duelers.
    They just hang around the 270-300 duel level ko everyone that is not a dueler and gets nearby there levels.... and they get the "massive amount" of 10 experience for 1000 duels.
    That needs to be changed. With a minimal of 100 duel experience instead of 0, they are out of the picture, since they can make 60 duels per day. Most of them already have more than 5000 duels... and have dueling points like the ones that made 200. That is something called Bullying...
     
  7. ChickenMcGuy

    ChickenMcGuy Staff Sergeant

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  8. HelenBack

    HelenBack Private First Class

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    You could also apply "bullying" to fort fighters... All of the elite fort fighters (purely built for fort battles) team up on the same side to steal all the forts and don't give the smaller alliances a chance to try for a fort. So are they going to cap HP? Oh no... don't touch the precious fort fighters... They are on a pedestal!

    BTW, I also fort fight as well as duel and quest... I play in every aspect of the game. I don't just focus on one part of it... I don't find it very fun, I like variety. I know many others that do too... They duel... They go to battles... They quest. So why take away what makes the duelers happy?

    You want to force them to only duel a select few people who might be in the special arena that they are only allowed to duel in... What if no one near their level is there? They have to go to NPC duels only? Where is the fun in that?

    Part of the fun of dueling is meeting people... I have made a lot of friends while dueling... More than I have when fort fighting... Or maybe I just knew them all before the forts showed up. Ya... The forts were not there when the West started... It was kill or be killed... If non-duelers got dueled, they would ask their town duelers to help take them down. We formed posses... Went after the worst and kept them KO'd. Not like the namby pamby boo-hooing that goes on these days... "OMG someone dared to duel me! They must be forced from the game! Ban them!!!"
    :p

    If you weren't around for the start of the West, then you really have no idea what being dueled constantly is like. Town raids took place where you could just sit in a town and duel the whole town from their saloon regardless of where the town person was... no travelling. At least now you can move away from town and people actually have to follow you to keep dueling you.

    Any idea how much Energy it takes to keep your duel level down? Probably not... Zero mot duelers have to work at keeping their mot down. Yes there are some that do that to prey on the weak... But there are also some that go zero mot to duel the zero mot duelers that prey on the weak.
    :cool:

    Again... Everyone has their own role to play... Why kill off dueling when it was what this game was founded on?

    If they go through with this ridiculous idea... I can see most duelers just leaving the game... Then you all can play Farmville, the West style... At least whoever is left here can.
    :tumble:
     
  9. foscock

    foscock Reservist

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    I see 2 images of survey questions...where are these statistics?

    Kill off dueling? :mad: Why even call it The West, call it Fort Fighting For Babies. :mad:

    I don't even duel that much anymore, but killing off dueling is ridiculous :mad:

    And resetting duel mot every night is just as dumb - why not reset all the fort fighters hp to zero every day and see how that flies.

    Seems like once again the vocal minority are trying to screw up the game.
     
  10. .Surge.

    .Surge. Guest

    This is by far the worst idea that I've ever read here... And I'm not a duelist.
     
  11. olga

    olga Master Sergeant

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    I am not a duellist - and I think it would be good to give workers and builders a chance not to be bullied by duellists, who only targets those they are sure to win over. But not this way - it makes the game to predictable.

    Resetting motivation every day - and separate the NPC motivation form PvP - that sounds good.

    What about giving some extra defensive skill some way when you don't have attacking skills - I am not sure how to do this- just an idea.

    This makes me think - I don't really understand why I bother to have building skills at all. I get a little exp from building church. - But not much now compared to the fact that it consumes a huge amount of energy compared to other jobs. You cant find anything. Fort building and the other towns gives nearly no exp. you don't get payed but have to pay - and you get bullied by the duellists. You really need to do something so that it is just a little more worth the trouble for the player - not just for the town.
     
  12. killado

    killado Staff Sergeant

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    First: Why are you joining up 2 DIFFERENT things?
    0 motivation duelers is one thing (the one i talked about) and dueling on a single place is another (and that i didn´t talk, mostly because they will not do that)... may be that´s why they gave it 2 points instead of one like you are doing.

    And yes, i started playing in the 5 month of life of the west... i only didn´t bother registering into the forums.

    And what is the trouble of getting 0 motivation? You say that you need to use too much energy to keeping 0 motivation... well, only if you forget to make duels on some day. I normally do 2 duels and 3 npcs per day and if i make 21 duels with the npcs... my motivation was at the 0% (that´s happen because of a quest). Since it raises 25 per day... you only need 5 npcs duels to take it down to 0% or 2 duels with humans. So 25 energy... that´s 20 minutes or 3 minutes. Where is the "great work" that you are talking about? Then you can make 6 duels at 0% without any other need.
    So, an easy way is making 100 duel experience to be the minimal value anyone will get from a duel, instead of 0. That way they can still make thousands and thousands of duels, but they will raise and get into the range of the biggest duelers on the server.
    99% of the ones that keep it that way are the ones that get around duel level 300 and just want to go for the 5000 duels with 3000 or more ko. And because they just want to take people down... not dueling.

    And the game started with duelings... and quests. Even that the quests now are so easy to do that anyone can be a great dueler (or fort fighter) and get into the more than 730 complete quests without any problem or having to reskill points around like we had to do in the old times.
    Right now the game only have 2 things: duels and forts. Everything else is so easy to do... that people just make them to waste time. That is one of the reasons for the progressive advance of those 0 motivation duelers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  13. olga

    olga Master Sergeant

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    Well it might be a god idea to make a Arena - But it should still be possible to duel other places too.

    It could make it possible to ad a little extra to the duelling- like NPC´s attacking.
     
  14. aysak

    aysak Guest

    Raises? Sure?
    I remember, it continues to grow, about 25%/2days. So the 0 motivation is easier.

    I think there is easier solution. Dueling xp have 2/3 normal xp, and 1/3 duel list xp. The motivation is to reduce both. Reduce only the normal xp.
     
  15. Cienfuegos

    Cienfuegos Guest

    Well, about the whole report that was posted...

    Personally, I'm excited to see further changes in the fort battle system. MPI also sounds really interesting, specially with the chance of being able to play it with people from different worlds. I don't really use the friends system, so I can't say that much about it. About quests (mainstory) I cant wait to start them

    About duelling, I'm glad to hear that 0 motivation duels are meant to dissapear, As far as I see it, It exploits the system in a certain way that doesn't benefit the game (as my loved cash battles used to do), and it actually leads a lot of players to leave the game, because they have no way to fight back. I'm also really curious about this "skill tree" proposed for duelling

    On the other hand, I think that setting an "arena" for duellers, and removing duels from the rest of the game is a really bad idea. I play more or less all the different options this game gives: in some worlds I get smashed by duellers while I work, on other worlds I'm the one smashing. It's part of the game, and it adds strategy and a lot of fun: wether it be schedulling your activities to save all your money in the bank so you don't get robbed, or thinking about how to avoid getting koed before a battle, or changing clothes, or taking revenge or asking for some town teamwork to bring down certain "bully", attacking the enemy's tanks...Leaving duels to a certain area of the map kills that all...Why should I worry to leave my money on the bank? why change clothes? why have a dueller in my town to chase all the bullies? Also, it raises some questions, like "what is the use of the dueller advantage of distance attack?", "what about the duel sets introduced in the tombolas?" "what about bounties?" "what a bout buffs?"

    duels add randomness and thrill to non duelling players, and a lot of different roles to duellers, be it bounty hunters, city guardians, tank attackers...I think it should stay as it is now
     
  16. The zero mot problem is the fact that most duelers, contrary to their claims, only pick on the weak. The problem rears its ugly head with low level zero mots who only exist to rob money from new players who have not learned to bank & enjoy making them quit the game. Once they find victims, they camp over & over to run up their win/KO record. These zero mots just do not care. When their level gets too high, they give their gear to another to hold, while they delete & restart. Wash rinse repeat.

    Let's face it folks, this game was designed to allow bullies to rule.

    The game is now mature, I just restarted accounts & the path upwards was much more difficult than in 2010; it was VERY ugly. Low level zero mots are now very professional. They have been taught & pushed by the best the game has to offer.

    The duelers claim the victims can go townless. What? What kind of game is that? Next the duelers claim they can use job KO. Uh folks, InnoGames tells us that is bannable exploit.

    If a way could be found to keep zero mots but protect low levels who have not learned the game or just want to quest, then that could be great.

    InnoGames has suggested an arena; forcing duelers into a specific area. Of course duelers do not want that. They would lose their easy victims that way.

    I am glad InnoGames realizes the problem & is trying to address it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2013
  17. s3b-1q

    s3b-1q Guest

    Hello,

    In these last days, I realised one thing in motivation, and another thing in duelling.

    1. Motivation means that you want to work, have the mood for doing that something. By working a lot, you get tired, your motivation drops and your mood will be bad.
    By that time, I don't think anyone would have the mood to duel or to work. So, what about not being able to duel or work at 0 motivation?
    2. If there is to make fort-battles available for those without town, why not allowing players without town to be dueled or being able to duel?

    I know this second question raises a lot of other questions, like "Wouldn't this make players who loved to do jobs and missions only, without town, that saves them from duels, quit the game?" It wouldn't do that if there would be an area where you cannot be dueled, like the area you suggested to be the only one for duelers. You can work, build cities, do missions there, but cannot be dueled, even if you are in a town. You would still have to go to quest-places. This area would be the maps' center, the 'hidden' one.
    Outside of that area anyone, even without a town, could be dueled. So those who want to do missions and work would live and stay most of the time in that area. It could be name "Sacred Land" or something similar.

    The first question is about killing 0-mot duelers, but, isn't that a good thing? I don't think anyone would quit from playing because of that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2013
  18. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    Have you played as a dueller recently killado? You may find you are mistaken regarding the reasons for zero motivation duelling. In fact, for many, it is more of a push factor away from regular duelling. (Btw at 300 duel level, you can only duel other players with a duel level of about 215 and above, certainly not your "poor worker".) I know on some international worlds, the top duellers have under 20 targets total, unrealistically assuming they are all awake and duellable concurrently. That's a massive penalty and begs the question – why wouldn't duellers use zero motivation tactics? In my humble opinion, fixing that question would go a long way to making everyone happy. It could easily be achieved through a number of more positive measures, such as:
    • Capping duel levels at (e.g.) 3x the regular level cap
    • Increasing the minimum duel motivation to 1%
    • Allowing items to have a duel level requirement
    • Creating usable items to reduce duel level (cannot be reduced below 200)
    • Making duel xp losable, at about 1/3 the gain rate (doesn't affect rankings)
    • Adding degradation to duel xp for respecced/inactive duellers (doesn't affect rankings)
    It seems not to have gained the traction I was hoping for, however... perhaps there could be help here changing that.

    I suspect you're not the only one of that opinion, so I am going to open a poll about it (check the forum) :)
     
  19. s3b-1q

    s3b-1q Guest

    These would be some great changes, and I would vote for them, but in the poll I voted "no" for The future of dueling highlighted in the Community report #1, because there is only about the Arena.
     
  20. Diggo11

    Diggo11 The West Team Dev Team

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    As you should. That is by no means an official plan, sadly, just an open submission from me.