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Changes to Premium Discussion Thread

mihai10092

Private
I'm bored to see only nuggets, nuggets, nuggets, ......, real money, real money, real money, ............
When I see something to make me to stay in this game???
 

sand of time

Private
Elite Tester
I'm bored to see only nuggets, nuggets, nuggets, ......, real money, real money, real money, ............
When I see something to make me to stay in this game???
Nobody knows!! But, play without real money, make this a challenge!


ON: I found useless the insurance premium, i prefer 10 nuggets to deposit my money without fees. The only way to buy it is with VIP pack, nobody will buy that separately. Now, i think, nobody will walk around with 10.000$ and 100 hp :)).
 

J. Doc Holliday

Guest
..I'm somewhat confused about that Greenhorn speed buff.. an SPEED in general
Normally I have 665% speed with my travel clothes; atm I use a saddle pommel, so +100% = 765%

Now I bought that Greenhorn Prem, and I have a speed of 9065% :blink:
so that's +8300% (or factor 11.85)...

Just tested: completely naked (and with babble fish) I have 2500%, so that's right - 100% base + 100% pommel + 2300% PA

.. now I've used up the pommel, my speed is now 8715%, so losing that 100% pommel buff gave me a 350% overall loss...

Who can solve that riddle for me?
Should be like this:

SPEED=(BASE+HORSE+HR)*(1+SB+PA+BUFF)

BASE=100%
HORSE=150% for quarter horse
HR= (Horseback riding skill value) * 1%
SB= (sum of the bonuses from the sets)/100%
PA= 23 if greenhorn premium is activated, 0 if not.
BUFF=(bonuses from buffs)/100%

EDIT: I made some tests with greenhorn premium and now it should be right.
EDIT 2: Now even the buff bonus should be at the right place.

Probably, you should add the dueller bonus in the second bracket (together with set bonuses and so on...) but I cannot test that part
 
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Lichurec

Guest
Hi!

We fixed the discounts problems so now all potions should show proper prices.
 

Disappoint

Reservist
Related, I think (if only peripherally) - the Merchant window, after this update, once again does not show if we have the offered item or not.
Can that be fixed, please?
 

J. Doc Holliday

Guest
Some points about the greenhorn premium and the speed formula:

  • It happens that the best travel equipment is not the same if you have the greenhorn premium activated or not. Same if you travel with/without buffs. With greenhorn premium it's better to maximize horseback riding instead of speed bonuses (just try).
  • For me the bonus is too overpowered, you travel about 10x faster than a non-premium player, and speed buffs (like saddle pommel) are less valuable. A value of 300% instead of 2300% could be better. With that value you will travel about 2-3x faster and you still see the difference when using buffs.
 
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Diggo11

The West Team
Dev Team
I am back! Thanks for everyone who posted more thoughts. I won't quote, but I'll try to respond to all the points I have read about each premium:

When adding the new items to the shop, I copied the currencies they could be bought in from our internal testing server. I have discussed it with Joony just recently, and we will remove the bond option from the enchanted nugget bag and the cash option from the tent. (In other words, every non-long timer can be bought using nuggets or bonds except for the nugget bag.) I hope this reduces the confusion and makes more sense for everybody.

Starting again with the enchanted nugget bag, which seemed to have more confusion than objections: I think it's intended for people who would use 90 or 365 day long timers. You can buy one at the same time as you renew your long timers, then keep collecting a daily payment from your bag. By the time your long timers need renewing again, the bag has already returned a profit to pay to renew them again. (Unless you already spent it in the shop over those ninety days, of course.) The same principle as the daily login bonus: hopefully it encourages people to play actively! If nobody has any balance concerns then I hope everyone is happy on this point.

Next the energy/motivation bags, I am surprised some people find these uninteresting. There is one similar permanent premium in this game I can think of, and personally, it would have been more balanced in my opinion if it were implemented as a long timer with +10% instead. (I don't want to name it and open old wounds, but hopefully you know what I am referring to, otherwise take it on principle.) But if they do not cause a balance concern, and some people like them, then I think there is nothing to discuss here.

About the tent, the description no longer uses the term "apartment" (iirc level 4 hotel), but would you be more inclined to use it were it equivalent to a 6 star barracks? For example, perhaps your home fort has been taken, or again you are in the middle of the map or perhaps even at an enemy fort waiting for an attack. In this case, what do you think is a fair price for one use? Also, then, what would be a fair price for unlimited uses? Would it make a good 50 nugget long timer?

... more coming soon ...
 

m4rvin88

Guest
When adding the new items to the shop, I copied the currencies they could be bought in from our internal testing server. I have discussed it with Joony just recently, and we will remove the bond option from the enchanted nugget bag and the cash option from the tent. (In other words, every non-long timer can be bought using nuggets or bonds except for the nugget bag.) I hope this reduces the confusion and makes more sense for everybody.
Why remove it instead of tweak it. What is so bad about a possibility to buy the nugget bag for 2000 bonds? I mean you do realise how long it takes to accumulate those 2000? So not too many player will be able to buy it.
Same for the tent and other non-lon timer, why not a fair dollar price as well?

Next the energy/motivation bags, I am surprised some people find these uninteresting. There is one similar permanent premium in this game I can think of, and personally, it would have been more balanced in my opinion if it were implemented as a long timer with +10% instead. (I don't want to name it and open old wounds, but hopefully you know what I am referring to, otherwise take it on principle.) But if they do not cause a balance concern, and some people like them, then I think there is nothing to discuss here.
I don't really know which other premium you talked about, maybe send me a private message to lighten me up? :)

Is it correct that I can choose the time when I want to use the bag? E.g. if I want to use it today at 2pm i can and then again tomorrow at 6pm and so on?

In that case the energy bag is certainly a interesing option.

Motivation is never really a big problem for me but what about maybe a HP bag? Just to quickly fill up your HP before a fortbattle?

Have you considered that maybe as alternative or extra?


About the tent, the description no longer uses the term "apartment" (iirc level 4 hotel), but would you be more inclined to use it were it equivalent to a 6 star barracks? For example, perhaps your home fort has been taken, or again you are in the middle of the map or perhaps even at an enemy fort waiting for an attack. In this case, what do you think is a fair price for one use? Also, then, what would be a fair price for unlimited uses? Would it make a good 50 nugget long timer?
If it is a one time only tent then no matter the price, I would never buy it, just travel quickly to nearest town and sleep there for $250. I have full sleeping gear and get already 45% extra regeneration.

To make it interesting it would ahve to be the 6 star barracks because quite a few people don't have access to it.

I think your last point is very good. Swap it with the insurance. For 50 nuggets you get a 6 star tent for 2 weeks. Sleep anywhere you like.
I buy it in an instant :)



You asked me about the insurance a few pages back and I have thought about it but the only thing that would make sense to me is the following:

An insurance buff. Works like this. You buy it in the shop for 10 bonds/nuggets and once activated saves all your money next time you get knocked out. Duration: 1 knock out.

But as a long time premium? No chance. Reasons been given plenty so far.



My last idea would be to add another long-time premium feature. 50 nuggets for 2 weeks and you get +50% experience. Similar to the higher income feature, just for the XP. During that time you also gain motivation +50% faster OR you loose -50% motivation less.


:up:
 

olga

Master Sergeant
I might consider both energy and motivation bag. Nugget bag- if you could get it for bonds or $ maybe. And as said above it is still a huge lot of bonds and nuggets.

The VIP bonus yes, and the speed is much too fast. It is convenient yes- but it runs the game. No more problems getting to a fight - fleeing from a duel into a hotel. You can travel in your hp gear, so you have no problems arriving at a battle with full hp. The game will be too easy - and then boring.

Tge fact that it is more nugget stuff again again, makes me think- do I really want this ? - Maybe it is the time I just stop this game. I dont think I am the only one. If the stuff could be bought for bonds /$ It would seem a little less "InnoGames Gready" It is still a huge lot of bonds to collect.
 

Hobie

Private First Class
the energy and motivation bags are over priced I think for the bonus amount they provide. 2k nuggets/bonds is a lot. take a similar items like coffee from the shop. At 18 nuggets/bonds, it would take a third of a year before the value caught up to the item. True, it continues to work forever, but 4 months is a long wait for a payoff on 2k nuggets. Who knows what will be out by then. Either the cost needs to come down or the bonus needs to go up to make that worth while. As is, I'd rather continue buying the full energy when needed for 18 nuggets and using chew or other buffs for motivation.
 

Petee

Sergeant
Elite Tester
Related, I think (if only peripherally) - the Merchant window, after this update, once again does not show if we have the offered item or not.
Can that be fixed, please?
Unless I'm mistaken, this is a ClothCalc feature. It was broken in the last UP Shop update and is the cause for those records in ClothCalc's error log. We will fix it in the next release.
I don't really know which other premium you talked about, maybe send me a private message to lighten me up? :)
That would probably be buying skills/attribute points...

Personally, permanent premiums like the energy/motivation bags seem quite interesting for me, but those are indeed overpriced.

A lvl6 tent long timer might actually be worth the money, although I still don't think it's quite equivalent to the classical ones in price.
 

Cienfuegos

Guest
Personally, if the tent equals to a 6 stars barrack I'd use it from time to time as it would be really time saving and comfortable for special occasions. If it's made a long-timer premium I'd buy it without any doubts, giving it priority over the character premium

So, as someone stated before, if you switch insurance for tent (and the tent equals to a 6 starts barrack), I'd totally buy it and love it, even if it renders the adventurer's hotel advantage useless.

if it's made a long-timer, there is some questions about how often may it be used, and what happens to duels when you are using it. Personally, I wouldn't give duel protection when sleeping in a tent (if you are in a tent, you aren't really protected against anything but weather)

About the energy and motivation bags, I think they give a nice goal and a good balanced boost if you get them. I support the hp bag, and sugest again a bonds bag too
 

Archer

Reservist
What about the skill reset for beta?

It's gone with the old prem window.

Can we have it again? It's awesome for testing purposes as everybody surely knows.

PS: I know there's a 97% discount on the Potions, but that will end today. I wouldlike to know about the long term plan on this Beta gimick.
 
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Leones

The West Team
The skill reset has been replaced with discounted reskill potions.
PS: I know there's a 97% discount on the Potions, but that will end today. I wouldlike to know about the long term plan on this Beta gimick.
The discount does not end today, it'll be here for a long time.
 
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dizzy dee

Reservist
i assume you can only have 1 enchanted nugget bag at a time. but what about regular worlds where you can play with one account on multiple worlds? i guess you can have also 1 nugget bag per world. this however can lead to some sort of abuse:
1 acc playing 1 world - invested 2250 - got back 3000, after 100 days i buy new one and milk it till used and then all over again - after 1 year i have 4.200 nuggs(with one bag still running for 35 days) or after 300 days i end up with total 4.500 nuggets.

1 acc playing 5 worlds - same logic as above but I can buy next nugget bag on different world after 75 days, after 125 days i can buy again on first world and so on. after roughly a year, 375 days i can have on my acc 8.850 nuggets or after 300 days 3.360 nuggets with 4 bags still running (carrying still 5.610 nuggets).
 

Diggo11

The West Team
Dev Team
I am glad these possible improvements to the tent seem popular.

i assume you can only have 1 enchanted nugget bag at a time. but what about regular worlds where you can play with one account on multiple worlds? i guess you can have also 1 nugget bag per world. this however can lead to some sort of abuse:
1 acc playing 1 world - invested 2250 - got back 3000, after 100 days i buy new one and milk it till used and then all over again - after 1 year i have 4.200 nuggs(with one bag still running for 35 days) or after 300 days i end up with total 4.500 nuggets.

1 acc playing 5 worlds - same logic as above but I can buy next nugget bag on different world after 75 days, after 125 days i can buy again on first world and so on. after roughly a year, 375 days i can have on my acc 8.850 nuggets or after 300 days 3.360 nuggets with 4 bags still running (carrying still 5.610 nuggets).
I just tried to buy one on Amchitka and Alamogordo, and even on a different world, it wouldn't let me buy a second.

Why remove it instead of tweak it. What is so bad about a possibility to buy the nugget bag for 2000 bonds? I mean you do realise how long it takes to accumulate those 2000? So not too many player will be able to buy it.
Same for the tent and other non-lon timer, why not a fair dollar price as well?
It was never 2000 bonds, it was 2250 bonds, which you cannot possibly accumulate. (Even if the limit was raised, my guess would be 2100 or 2249.) The absence of cash is the same as all other shop items; you'll just need to attend fort battles and keep collecting the bonds that replaced cash battles.

Is it correct that I can choose the time when I want to use the bag? E.g. if I want to use it today at 2pm i can and then again tomorrow at 6pm and so on?

In that case the energy bag is certainly a interesing option.
They refill on a timer basis, like the 10m countdown when using an energy buff, but much longer obviously.
 

MercuryTem

Reservist
My opinion on bags ( nuggets / energy / etc. ) : if they refill based on a timer , a large part of their interest will be lost for gamers ( and this may provoke a lot of disappointments from gamers).

Explanation :
I use the bag today at 7AM ; I have to wait on tomorrow at 7AM to use it again . But as I'm not there, I could only do it on 8AM ... This delay also the use of the bag for the day after... I will not be able to use it in this case on Sunday at 7AM even if I'm there , but only after 8AM because the 24h will not have ended yet. And so on...

I would have (personally) prefered some bags reset each day at 00h (or 2AM as for some other stuff).
 

m4rvin88

Guest
It was never 2000 bonds, it was 2250 bonds, which you cannot possibly accumulate. (Even if the limit was raised, my guess would be 2100 or 2249.) The absence of cash is the same as all other shop items; you'll just need to attend fort battles and keep collecting the bonds that replaced cash battles.
I'm well aware that it was 2250 bonds, but my question was, what is so bad about being able to buy it with bonds? I mean it would finally give bonds a really good use and you don't collect 2000 or 2250 bonds easily.


They refill on a timer basis, like the 10m countdown when using an energy buff, but much longer obviously.
My opinion on bags ( nuggets / energy / etc. ) : if they refill based on a timer , a large part of their interest will be lost for gamers ( and this may provoke a lot of disappointments from gamers).

Explanation :
I use the bag today at 7AM ; I have to wait on tomorrow at 7AM to use it again . But as I'm not there, I could only do it on 8AM ... This delay also the use of the bag for the day after... I will not be able to use it in this case on Sunday at 7AM even if I'm there , but only after 8AM because the 24h will not have ended yet. And so on...

I would have (personally) prefered some bags reset each day at 00h (or 2AM as for some other stuff).
there was an idea on the german forum that the bag shouldn't last 100 days and instead last 100 times being used. Much more freedom for the user and more incentive to buy it.
 

.Surge.

Guest
guys, they don't want you to get more nuggets..they just want to sell something that looks like a good idea but isn't (in the long run). Yes, you'll loose some days even if the delay wasnt that big every day and after all that trouble you'll have exactly the same amount of nuggets that you spent to buy it (maybe little less, or little more).

100uses? tell me again how that wouldn't generate infinite nuggets :D