Changelog 2.199 - Discussion

[thenootz55]

One possibility is to introduce character class bonuses that do not affect PvP.

That makes no sense at all, if you have characters with bonuses only for PvE, then it really is irrelevant what class you choose (unless you care about that 20% increase in cotton drop rate). You also screw up every player that focuse on PvP so far (e.g: a duelist and an adventurer are now on equal foot on damage dealt at forts, or any other aspect of it, makes no sense).

However, if these bonuses are meant to have an impact on PvP, they should be available to every class.

Again, hell no! The whole point of choosing a character class is that it impacts how you'll be playing the game overall. You'll end up in a situation where there might be one class that has great PvE bonuses (e.g: Workers) and everyone is gonna be choosing that + 1 or 2 PvP bonuses. I can see a server full of Workers that can critical shot at forts and have tactics bonus in duels.

 

[Blume]

That makes no sense at all, if you have characters with bonuses only for PvE, then it really is irrelevant what class you choose (unless you care about that 20% increase in cotton drop rate). You also screw up every player that focuse on PvP so far (e.g: a duelist and an adventurer are now on equal foot on damage dealt at forts, or any other aspect of it, makes no sense).

I believe you didn't understand my previous response. My comment was addressing the suggestion to introduce bonus Skill Point for each Charakter which, in my opinion, would worsen the situation. I think each class should bring its own advantages that support its intended playstyle. For example, it would be great if the duelist-class requires less time between duels, allowing the player to engage the with the same player in duels more frequently. Additionally, reducing the duel cooldown from 10 minutes to 5 minutes, so overall it would be good for those who enjoy dueling, without destroying the entire balance through bonus Skill Points as proposed.

Again, hell no! The whole point of choosing a character class is that it impacts how you'll be playing the game overall. You'll end up in a situation where there might be one class that has great PvE bonuses (e.g: Workers) and everyone is gonna be choosing that + 1 or 2 PvP bonuses. I can see a server full of Workers that can critical shot at forts and have tactics bonus in duels.

What I meant was that if the suggested bonus skill points, for example, for dueling or Fort Battles, are meant to be integrated into the game, it doesn't make sense to assign them to specific classes. Instead, it would be more logical to make them skill-based, ensuring that PvP remains purely skill-based overall.

 

[Blume]

That would unnecessarily complicate things. The changes should be simple and easy to implement, after all we only have one developer and he is part time.

Do you really think so? We already have the Soldier bonus that covers this aspect in combat, which could be replicated and added to the other classes. Resistance, damage, and other factors are already part of the game, so we would just be utilizing what's already available. As for class-based skills, we could utilize the character's skill points (excluding clothing bonuses) and, for example, multiply the number of skill points by 0.1 to determine a percentage bonus on the contributed Skill Point. This way, a level 150 character with 100% HP skill would have 600 Skill Points on HP, resulting in a 60% bonus on this Bonus (with clothing Bonus) wich will allow player to develop unique skills and adapting to the situation.

 

[DeletedUser500]

Do you really think so? We already have the Soldier bonus that covers this aspect in combat, which could be replicated and added to the other classes. Resistance, damage, and other factors are already part of the game, so we would just be utilizing what's already available. As for class-based skills, we could utilize the character's skill points (excluding clothing bonuses) and, for example, multiply the number of skill points by 0.1 to determine a percentage bonus on the contributed Skill Point. This way, a level 150 character with 100% HP skill would have 600 Skill Points on HP, resulting in a 60% bonus on this Bonus (with clothing Bonus) wich will allow player to develop unique skills and adapting to the situation.

I've suggested something like this too, but it could be considered "monotonous" to just have a soldier-bonus style thing for all classes. It could also be considered "fair", however to have 1 Personal Fort Bonus and 1 Team Fort Bonus per class.

 

[Blume]

I've suggested something like this too, but it could be considered "monotonous" to just have a soldier-bonus style thing for all classes. It could also be considered "fair", however to have 1 Personal Fort Bonus and 1 Team Fort Bonus per class.

The final solution is still uncertain, but we can discuss a potential direction it could follow. In my perspective, class bonuses in Fort Battles should primarily revolve around team-oriented aspects, incorporating standard bonuses like a 2% critical chance applicable to all classes. However, the remaining bonuses should be customizable by your Character Skill Points, allowing players to tailor them to their individual needs. For instance, the leadership attribute could amplify critical chance, while the targeting attribute could enhance hit accuracy. This approach would enable players to personalize their "combat class" according to their preferred playstyle. As a result, I anticipate the emergence of diverse skill strategies for fort defense and capture, which I would appreciate

 

[ayias]

Waiting for 2.200

 

[thenootz55]

I believe you didn't understand my previous response. My comment was addressing the suggestion to introduce bonus Skill Point for each Charakter which, in my opinion, would worsen the situation. I think each class should bring its own advantages that support its intended playstyle. For example, it would be great if the duelist-class requires less time between duels, allowing the player to engage the with the same player in duels more frequently. Additionally, reducing the duel cooldown from 10 minutes to 5 minutes, so overall it would be good for those who enjoy dueling, without destroying the entire balance through bonus Skill Points as proposed.

What I meant was that if the suggested bonus skill points, for example, for dueling or Fort Battles, are meant to be integrated into the game, it doesn't make sense to assign them to specific classes. Instead, it would be more logical to make them skill-based, ensuring that PvP remains purely skill-based overall.

Yup, I did misunderstand

So, just to make sure, you mean that instead of having a class getting chances for critical hits, you could have say critical hits chance based on, for example, aiming? So the more aiming you have, you increase your chance of crits? Or some formula involving multiple skills? Cause in that case, it can be something interesting.

 

[Blume]

So, just to make sure, you mean that instead of having a class getting chances for critical hits, you could have say critical hits chance based on, for example, aiming? So the more aiming you have, you increase your chance of crits? Or some formula involving multiple skills? Cause in that case, it can be something interesting.

yeah so, each skill point of your character class, apart from the bonuses by clothing, grants individual advantages for ur abilities. In my opinion, classes should only receive standard bonuses that are common to all classes (default settings lol.). The specific class bonus should then only support the respective playstyle. For example, workers could not lose motivation during city & Fort development, soldiers would have no capped bonus in Fort battles for experience, Bonds, and money. Adventurers could have 20% more work motivation, and the duelist could benefit from a shorter waiting time between duels, allowing them to duel the same player more frequently. What I also would appreciate are team-oriented class bonuses in Combat.

Here is an example:
Each Character skill point, can grant customizable bonuses as follows:

• Building x0.1
• Health Points x0.2
• Melee & Shooting x0.05 (Skill Bonus) and x0.1 (Fixed Damage in Duels)
• Aiming x0.05 (Critical Chance) and (Bonus for Duels)
• Leadership x0.2 (Critical Bonus Damage)
• Evasion x0.03 (Chance to Dodge All Hits in Fort Battles) and x0.05 (Bonus for Duels)

 

[Miss Florida]

@Loki When are the class changes coming back?

 

[time4sumaksion]

@Loki When are the class changes coming back?

From a .net CM

1) What is a status of the update for character class bonuses? Is it still under development and if yes, any rough estimates when it could be ready?

1. this project is closed for the time being, not sure if it ever will be reopen

 

[I AM INEVITABLE]

They wont for at least 2 more years i think. That was our only chance. Its sad and funny that some people actually believed that InnoGames would do what they wanted instead of just shutting the whole thing. Has that ever happened?
But of course some smart people started the riot and then everybody followed without thinking the aftermath. 20 years same game.

And what is worse is that half the changes where actually really good.

 

[foscock]

They wont for at least 2 more years i think. That was our only chance. Its sad and funny that some people actually believed that InnoGames would do what they wanted instead of just shutting the whole thing. Has that ever happened?
But of course some smart people started the riot and then everybody followed without thinking the aftermath. 20 years same game.

And what is worse is that half the changes where actually really good.

And the other half were typical total garbage.

 

[Emma Swan]

They wont for at least 2 more years i think. That was our only chance. Its sad and funny that some people actually believed that InnoGames would do what they wanted instead of just shutting the whole thing. Has that ever happened?
But of course some smart people started the riot and then everybody followed without thinking the aftermath. 20 years same game.

And what is worse is that half the changes where actually really good.

No, they were not. Most than half didnt make any sense at all. Maybe 1 or 2 were good, but rest would destroy this game even more. Now I dont remember them because they were nonsenses, but 2 sticked to my brain. 1- Setting traps replaced by building if higher for FF if you are builder 2. As dueler, duration of duel is 5 min sure..... extremly amazing ideas

 

[I AM INEVITABLE]

Adventurer
Your regeneration while sleeping increases by 10% (20%)
-thats very good maybe buff to 15/30 to make a difference
-still needed small ff buff.
(Maybe after each ghost shot regain x?% hp would be great)

Dueller
Duels against other players take 25% (50%)* less time.
-makes xp/s combined with faster speed and motivation makes dueller worth duelling
The speed on the map is increased by 25% (50%)*.
-great instead of that 15/30m teleport which doesn't make sense and was unfair
You receive 15% (30%)* more money in a duel.
-fair buff

Worker
In fort battles, your aiming and dodging are boosted by 15% (30%)*. If it is higher, your building skill replaces hiding and setting traps
-whats so bad? Its a builder class after all. Also would probably bring more workers to ff and maybe would need different ff gear that most wont need so win win for everyone. Dont make me laugh saying its op. Also the nerf to 15/30 instead of 20/40 is good

Soldier
???
-i guess we will never know

Honourable mentions
Everyone can critical hit with a 2% chance
-understandable why some wont like but i think its not that bad. It makes the duellers less op as everyone can crit. Its fun since its something less predictable and come on its only 2%.
Your battle hardened instincts allow you to see the bonus skill points of your opponents' equipment and weapon wield in the duel menu.
-yes yes yes yes

 

[Uchiha Madara]

Adventurer
Your regeneration while sleeping increases by 10% (20%)
-thats very good maybe buff to 15/30 to make a difference
-still needed small ff buff.
(Maybe after each ghost shot regain x?% hp would be great)

Dueller
Duels against other players take 25% (50%)* less time.
-makes xp/s combined with faster speed and motivation makes dueller worth duelling
The speed on the map is increased by 25% (50%)*.
-great instead of that 15/30m teleport which doesn't make sense and was unfair
You receive 15% (30%)* more money in a duel.
-fair buff

Worker
In fort battles, your aiming and dodging are boosted by 15% (30%)*. If it is higher, your building skill replaces hiding and setting traps
-whats so bad? Its a builder class after all. Also would probably bring more workers to ff and maybe would need different ff gear that most wont need so win win for everyone. Dont make me laugh saying its op. Also the nerf to 15/30 instead of 20/40 is good

Soldier
???
-i guess we will never know

Honourable mentions
Everyone can critical hit with a 2% chance
-understandable why some wont like but i think its not that bad. It makes the duellers less op as everyone can crit. Its fun since its something less predictable and come on its only 2%.
Your battle hardened instincts allow you to see the bonus skill points of your opponents' equipment and weapon wield in the duel menu.
-yes yes yes yes

Sorry but these are very bad changes with no logic.

 

[Emma Swan]

I am still trying to be nice so .... dont hate me if sometimes my explanation seems to be rude

Adventurer, you cant consider that as Buff bonus for him He needs completly remake. If no higher dodge chance, then bonus HP so that they can start doing what they were supposed to do, block sectors. If not, then bonus aim in FF so that they can become good dmg.

Builder honestly depending on how high level you are, higher level means more useless as it comes to this change or whatever you name it. You can take santa and you will dodge if you are level above 160 and you will dodge good number, not the best but good enough to protect players behind you. If somebody wants to do church and has everything in building, you can take basic Cortina set and you are good to go because of his bonuses. Simple.

After that short time of dueling, dueling would not be fair. Sure you could take soldier with his tactics and huge hp down with higher chance if you take more duelers with you, but to other characters it would be totally unfair.

Soldier is topic on its own. Or bonus hp, or bonus tactics, not both. Thats the problem nowdays with dueling sets, they have both meaning soldier is op in duels.

Crit rate 2% for everybody? Now tanks are struggling and are beaten by low levels because they dont hit you 30 rounds but once they do, its probably a crit. That would be good adition to servers where bug Forts are full during fight and you need to take that hp down. But most of the servers are dead and cant even fill small fort up, so, no. not a good idea.

Each character should have FF bonus only if on the own tower. If you move to other sector, tower, building whatever you should loose that bonus. So that everyone has the same bonus, its better for attackers they may see hope in this system and ff would be playable more than now. Or at least reduced bonus if not on its own tower.

I was one of those complaining about this nonsens changes and i stand behind it still.

 

[Aron]

The funny thing is that these changes were introduced over half a year ago, then they were rolled back and no new proposals have appeared since then. I have no hope that anything will change soon.

 

[I AM INEVITABLE]

So you are saying the changes were that bad its they stopped the class updates for ever?

In short:
-adventurer: small buff but needed bigger for forts (bad job InnoGames)
-dueller: good buff for duells and indirect crit nerf (good job InnoGames)
-worker: small p2w nerf and small dmg buff with crits (good job InnoGames)
-soldier: didn't make it but needs slight duelling nerf(bad job InnoGames)

I really dont think the 2% crit factor would change things that much to be a reason to stop the update. Maybe leadership soldier builds would be more viable or more spread out skill builds instead of full hp/full leadership as of right now

 

[Emma Swan]

All I am saying is that they must use brain while changing character bonuses thats all.
As for 2%, dont look at the number, but what that number could do. Mixed with lovely rng you can hit crit 3x in the row, or 6x per battle, or once, or none. If you have 50 players and each round 5-10 hit crit, then next round 15 because you know how tanks hit almost every round now, then suddenly in 3rd round you are dead. What would be your reaction? Good job InnoGames?

As for nerf 15%/30% for worker wouldnt make difference either since they now hit almost every round without even having premium. Imagine worker that can crit 2-4x per battle. All you need is rifle upgraded on 3-4 and you can easily put duelers into the corner. No, these changes must be samrtly made. Not based on what we eant and how could we be better, but how can we make this characters even-ish....

 

[Uchiha Madara]

Guys , let's try to understand each other for a moment. I am sure everyone would've loved to have class updates. But let's be realistic , changes must meet balance , for example , this is my opinion maybe you find this a bit different but hear me out:

Worker is perfectly balanced , they don't need a change ANYWHERE. They are great at FF , they are working machines ( as they should be ) and they can even duel if wanted. The changes that InnoGames suggested for Worker was an absolute joke , they don't want you to stop building 24/7 so instead , if you were building 24/7 you could join FF too and the building skills would help you ( but not really , it wouldnt help at all ) and imagine now , 30-40-50 workers all with building sets in an FF , they will die like flies.

Adventurer "update" was the biggest joke , not only Adventurer is a very bad tank in FF ( could be played by sectors and can be a very crucial player for a FF ) BUT the changes were an updated Hotel update , like it's already a shit class why still let it be shit? Why not listen to the players that have been asking for changes for Adventurer for many years now?

Dueler is already broken with Character bonus , if your town is on the middle sectors , you can basically duel ANYONE without leaving your town , making the duels 5 minutes would brake the game even more and you would have duelers dueling 12 players in 1 hour without even moving a single millimeter. The only good thing was the Crit nerf.

Soldier has been again asked for many years to get a nerf on tactics but I can't even say anything else because they never even introduced the Soldier changes , and you know why? Because they 100% buffed tactics even more OR they simply ignored YET AGAIN all the feedback about soldier tactics thats why we never saw what changes the Soldier would've had.

Long story short , InnoGames shows how badly managed and how easily they give up , because they saw so much negativity about the updates ( which were 100% their fault ) they immediately stopped the process of updating the classes and there's a high possibility we will never EVER see class updates. InnoGames and The-West in particular is the most badly managed game that has ever existed. If they would care EVEN A BIT to make something good , they would listen to the community BUT they will listen and they will implement ideas of a person that suggested the most dumb idea on Facebook. It's facts. Don't bother really , this game will never go front , and will always live in the shadows of 2008 because clueless people manage the game and with clueless people you will have badly managed games.